Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:34 am  

We need to see how the team and Smith performs against weaker opposition, when we are being stressed a little less.

Most of the criticisms about passive defence etc. have not really been evident in the last two losses. It still may well be the case that Smith ends up losing his job this year; the problem is that you lot complain about anybody and anything. Brian Mac go so much stick despite being the most successful coach ever. Same people using arguments about "only results matter" also bag BM....

My own frustrations are around some strange decisions around player retention, one or two signings and some in-game decisions which baffle me. I really think Newman and Fus should have been off the field when they got injured; Newman could have had treatment and gone back on later if he pulled up fit; Fus was clearly knackered yet again. They were both liabilities in D, I just don't think the selection that day allowed for injuries to both those players, which is bad luck to a degree.

People still trying to blame RS for a decision Miller made which was clearly wrong, and also blaming him for bagging him in the post-match. A thousand percent RS doesn't coach that kind of decision, and that player in particular has been prone to brain farts from pre-season through. Yes he's great going forward, no complaints, but RS needs to find a way to wind in his excesses/have another player make those kind of kicks.

I don't blame the coach for individuals making those kind of errors, but there comes a point where you can blame him for still selecting those players, or putting them in positions where their weaknesses shine.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 7:41 am  

KaeruJim wrote:

We need to see how the team and Smith performs against weaker opposition, when we are being stressed a little less.

Most of the criticisms about passive defence etc. have not really been evident in the last two losses. It still may well be the case that Smith ends up losing his job this year; the problem is that you lot complain about anybody and anything. Brian Mac go so much stick despite being the most successful coach ever. Same people using arguments about "only results matter" also bag BM....

My own frustrations are around some strange decisions around player retention, one or two signings and some in-game decisions which baffle me. I really think Newman and Fus should have been off the field when they got injured; Newman could have had treatment and gone back on later if he pulled up fit; Fus was clearly knackered yet again. They were both liabilities in D, I just don't think the selection that day allowed for injuries to both those players, which is bad luck to a degree.

People still trying to blame RS for a decision Miller made which was clearly wrong, and also blaming him for bagging him in the post-match. A thousand percent RS doesn't coach that kind of decision, and that player in particular has been prone to brain farts from pre-season through. Yes he's great going forward, no complaints, but RS needs to find a way to wind in his excesses/have another player make those kind of kicks.

I don't blame the coach for individuals making those kind of errors, but there comes a point where you can blame him for still selecting those players, or putting them in positions where their weaknesses shine.

It's a good post, and you're right to point out BM. I think the main criticism of BM was that we mostly player averagely throughout the season with our best playing group ever, and then turned it on when it came to the play-offs. We also played some dire rugby under BM, 2015 being the exception to both those points.

With Smith, we're playing dire rugby and not looking like we'll even make the play-offs.

I do slightly disagree with your post about Miller. Either the comms (from team or sideline) or the systems were not working during that play. It's the coaches job to make sure the right players are making the calls, or setting systems in place to make sure it doesn't happen. So in that sense, I do blame Smith.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:33 am  

KaeruJim wrote:

We need to see how the team and Smith performs against weaker opposition, when we are being stressed a little less.

Most of the criticisms about passive defence etc. have not really been evident in the last two losses. It still may well be the case that Smith ends up losing his job this year; the problem is that you lot complain about anybody and anything. Brian Mac go so much stick despite being the most successful coach ever. Same people using arguments about "only results matter" also bag BM....

My own frustrations are around some strange decisions around player retention, one or two signings and some in-game decisions which baffle me. I really think Newman and Fus should have been off the field when they got injured; Newman could have had treatment and gone back on later if he pulled up fit; Fus was clearly knackered yet again. They were both liabilities in D, I just don't think the selection that day allowed for injuries to both those players, which is bad luck to a degree.

People still trying to blame RS for a decision Miller made which was clearly wrong, and also blaming him for bagging him in the post-match. A thousand percent RS doesn't coach that kind of decision, and that player in particular has been prone to brain farts from pre-season through. Yes he's great going forward, no complaints, but RS needs to find a way to wind in his excesses/have another player make those kind of kicks.

I don't blame the coach for individuals making those kind of errors, but there comes a point where you can blame him for still selecting those players, or putting them in positions where their weaknesses shine.

Good post Jim. Agree with much of that.

What I would say about Miller's short drop out is that it's very symptomatic of how we've played under Smith since start of last season and for me if we had a top coach who the players feared or coached them well, then they wouldn't dare do such a brain fart 99.9% of the time, they'd make better decisions week after week, we consistently make stupid decisions, short kick offs, don't respect the ball, don't earn the hard yards first and that is a reflection of the coaching..

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:56 am  

I think for me I want to see how Leeds are playing with a little less pressure from the opposition. Hopefully we can pick up 2 wins next and be 6/10, which actually isn't awful as a win rate even if performances are wobbly.

I think my minimum success result for us this year was top half finish and a decent showing in play-offs. If we lose one of the next two games I'm not sure we're going to finish top half and so even voodoo doll gets dusted off. We need to be dominant too because points difference could well matter at the back end of the year.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:08 pm  

jim, anybody can play without pressure. it's easy.

the best teams/ players/ coaches deal with it

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 1:21 pm  

tad rhino wrote:

jim, anybody can play without pressure. it's easy.

the best teams/ players/ coaches deal with it

Yes and we clearly need to find a groove and some confidence and form at the moment. Hull will raise their game for us by the way, and it might not be as much of a shoe-in as some expect. They'll earmark us as we look vulnerable.

I think a fair few on here want to see us lose in order to get rid of a coach you don't like, which is fair enough.

Personally I want to see us perform better so we can go into Cats and Saints away with our tails up. Still plenty to play for this year, but we'll need something close to our first choice side to make any impact in play-offs.

I am sick of us losing so much but in all honesty we've been like this for a very long time now. This side is still better/stronger than we've had for some time, and I can see the framework of a genuinely good side starting to emerge. Time will tell.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 3:24 pm  

KaeruJim wrote:

I think for me I want to see how Leeds are playing with a little less pressure from the opposition. Hopefully we can pick up 2 wins next and be 6/10, which actually isn't awful as a win rate even if performances are wobbly.

I think my minimum success result for us this year was top half finish and a decent showing in play-offs. If we lose one of the next two games I'm not sure we're going to finish top half and so even voodoo doll gets dusted off. We need to be dominant too because points difference could well matter at the back end of the year.

Jim, top 4 finish and a decent cup and playoff run should have been the minimum target this year given the money spent on recruitment. anything less than that is a failure. GH said himself the recruitment undertaken should make us competitive at the top of the comp and this is where we should expect to be given the club's size and power.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 4:05 pm  

Trebor1 wrote:

Jim, top 4 finish and a decent cup and playoff run should have been the minimum target this year given the money spent on recruitment. anything less than that is a failure. GH said himself the recruitment undertaken should make us competitive at the top of the comp and this is where we should expect to be given the club's size and power.

Yep well personally I'm prepared to wait another season for a genuine top 4 push. I think our native lads will improve further, and obviously we still need to tinker with some additional signings to bolster that.

Top half and something in the play-offs would mean progress for me; although of course we're looking disappointing in light of the players we've brought in.

I agree a club of our size should be way stronger than we are, but this has been us under several different coaches for a very long time now. Something's not clicking.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:42 pm  

exiledrhino wrote:

It's a good post, and you're right to point out BM. I think the main criticism of BM was that we mostly player averagely throughout the season with our best playing group ever, and then turned it on when it came to the play-offs. We also played some dire rugby under BM, 2015 being the exception to both those points.

With Smith, we're playing dire rugby and not looking like we'll even make the play-offs.

I do slightly disagree with your post about Miller. Either the comms (from team or sideline) or the systems were not working during that play. It's the coaches job to make sure the right players are making the calls, or setting systems in place to make sure it doesn't happen. So in that sense, I do blame Smith.

Excuses for coach and players alike at elite level Rugby doesn't cut it for me someone needs to take ownership of the results so far 100% effort is none negotiable its that simple.

Re: Smith out ASAP : Fri Apr 26, 2024 6:08 pm  

What exactly is “something in the playoffs”? A victory and then getting knocked out? A battling defeat to Huddersfield? It’s so vague and far-reaching. Leeds should be aiming to win the grand final, every season. Is that realistic? Not in reality, but that should be the aspiration.

So nowhere this season and then top 4 next season, that’s your aim? That would mean it had taken Smith 3 full seasons to simply get us in the top 4. That’s absurd. Again, people are obsessed with this long, drawn out arduous transition period.

Wigan have a model of bringing through their own coaches. Saints have always been able to find the best from overseas willing to join SL. Smith is neither, he’s meh, nothingness.