Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:01 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

.....having scored 4 tries in his last 32 games

Shame try scoring is the only recognised attribute of a player. (Who also is now playing Union where this seasons Premiership top try scorer only has 10)

So remind me again, what teams would our 4 wingers get into? You seem to say nearly all?

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:05 pm  

Cruncher wrote:

Well that still discounts Charnley. He's hardly been a try-scoring machine in recent years.

You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but I'd suggest that my 'outlandish' position is a little more pragmatic.

I'm saying that I can't see the club making such a move simply because it will cost them a lost less money and hassle if the training staff work with the raw talent they've already got. I don't disagree that Marshall has defensive weaknesses (but Josh had them too, and God knows what he'll be like on that front after 2 years in Union!) - that can certainly be improved. Budgie is a problem; again, I don't disagree. But we know that there's a very good winger somewhere inside him. And unless Manfredi declares that he's finished, we can't just ditch him.

For all these reasons, I repeat that I think Josh Charnley, or any other wing signing for that matter, is a pipedream at present.

Getting ourselves a decent right centre and, by the looks of it, a couple of front-rowers, should be the priority at present.

-Never said we should sign Charnley.
-Never said we should ditch Manfredi. I said it's outlandish to state he'd get into most SL teams on form. We have to be realistic, who knows how good he'll be when he returns. I have everything crossed he'll be the player he was before he left us.

Seems we're in agreement re Marshall/Burgess.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:20 pm  

Budgie will be fine, just needs a run of games.
He has to deal with Marshalls presence as he certainly is putting pressure on him and wanes shown he's not afraid to give the lesser name the shirt.

Isn't this what we want? Everyone fit and challenging for places?
With the Manfred situation still unclear I'd still say all 3 options are as good as any other clubs in the country as a trio.

Marshall does have some work to do on his defensive side of his game. He does struggle against bigger more powerful players however at the same time hell cause them problems given some decent ball.
It's hard to explain but I do feel like defensively when kicked to or dealing with grabbers etc he makes mistakes that at the other end he scores with. He just seems a bit jittery at times dealing with things going backwards that in attack he's all over and super confident.

Budgie carried some knocks last year but still had some good games I.e. WCC, saints at Easter and away in middle 8s, magic etc. And also played centre when needed.

I'm sure when he gets his chance he'll take it, he just needs to concentrate on his game, work harder as naturally he's probably the best of the lot.
Tom Davies work rate, carries, metres are just exceptional.
If he can add a few more tries to his game then I wouldn't swap him for anyone else in the league.

Oh and by the way

They're something like 20/21 and 223?
Lots of improvements and years ahead of them all, great position to be in.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:31 pm  

Jukesays wrote:

Budgie will be fine, just needs a run of games.
He has to deal with Marshalls presence as he certainly is putting pressure on him and wanes shown he's not afraid to give the lesser name the shirt.

Isn't this what we want? Everyone fit and challenging for places?
With the Manfred situation still unclear I'd still say all 3 options are as good as any other clubs in the country as a trio.

Marshall does have some work to do on his defensive side of his game. He does struggle against bigger more powerful players however at the same time hell cause them problems given some decent ball.
It's hard to explain but I do feel like defensively when kicked to or dealing with grabbers etc he makes mistakes that at the other end he scores with. He just seems a bit jittery at times dealing with things going backwards that in attack he's all over and super confident.

Budgie carried some knocks last year but still had some good games I.e. WCC, saints at Easter and away in middle 8s, magic etc. And also played centre when needed.

I'm sure when he gets his chance he'll take it, he just needs to concentrate on his game, work harder as naturally he's probably the best of the lot.
Tom Davies work rate, carries, metres are just exceptional.
If he can add a few more tries to his game then I wouldn't swap him for anyone else in the league.

Oh and by the way

They're something like 20/21 and 223?
Lots of improvements and years ahead of them all, great position to be in.

Good post, of which I agree with for the most part. I just hope the issues rectify themselves. I hope Burgess comes good, I hope Manfredi returns to be the same player who left and I hope Marshall can work on his defensive issues and unforced errors all to become top wingers competing for 2 wing spots.

But in all honesty there's lots of improvement to be made in 2 out of the 4 wingers (hard to include Manfredi as he's suffering a long term injury). I guess now it's about who do you back, Marshall or Burgess? Both need game time to improve.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:00 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Shame try scoring is the only recognised attribute of a player. (Who also is now playing Union where this seasons Premiership top try scorer only has 10)

So remind me again, what teams would our 4 wingers get into? You seem to say nearly all?

Team - winger who would be dropped for any of Davies/Marshall/Burgess/Manfredi when fit

Castleford - Minikin
Catalans - either
Huddersfield - Murphy
Hull KR - Shaw
Saints - Swift
Salford - Evalds
Wakefield - Jones-Bishop
Warrington - Russell
Widnes - either

So 9 out of 11

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:06 pm  

Grimmy wrote:

Team - winger who would be dropped for any of Davies/Marshall/Burgess/Manfredi when fit

Castleford - Minikin
Catalans - either
Huddersfield - Murphy
Hull KR - Shaw
Saints - Swift
Salford - Evalds
Wakefield - Jones-Bishop
Warrington - Russell
Widnes - either

I'd be tempted to put Briscoe in there too, regressed dramatically the last few years.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:09 pm  

Cherry_&_White wrote:

I'd be tempted to put Briscoe in there too, regressed dramatically the last few years.

Manfredi must be a fantastic winger being better than all you mentioned being that he has anterior cruciate ligament damage. After you list I would assume you missed Burgess v Souths.

PS, Saints starting wingers are Grace and Makinson. Not Swift.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:26 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Manfredi must be a fantastic winger being better than all you mentioned being that he has anterior cruciate ligament damage. After you list I would assume you missed Burgess v Souths.

PS, Saints starting wingers are Grace and Makinson. Not Swift.

Not wanting to put words in people's mouths, but I'm assuming that the 'our 4 would get in anyone's team' argument was based on Burgess & Manfredi not being permanently hampered by their injuries. Bit of a stretch with Manfredi, but we don't have anything else to go off. If it turns out that he'll never be the same, then fair enough, but if were talking about what we've seen of him, he's still our best winger imo.

Fair point about Saints' wingers, but as good as Makinson & Grace are, I think you can make a case for each of our wingers getting in that team.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:30 pm  

Last Son of Wigan wrote:

Manfredi must be a fantastic winger being better than all you mentioned being that he has anterior cruciate ligament damage. After you list I would assume you missed Burgess v Souths.

PS, Saints starting wingers are Grace and Makinson. Not Swift.

What has Manfredi done to upset you? Before injury he was in sensational form, in his last full season was 4th top scorer and made great yards coming from the back.

Yes he’s injured and we can’t be certain he will come back the same player, but you seem to be certain he won’t? Tom Johnstone ruptured his ACL and has come back in fine form, so why won’t Manfredi? If he comes back and isn’t the same player then fine, but until then I’ll base his ability based on what we know he can do.

Re: Right centre : Tue Feb 20, 2018 3:40 pm  

WARRIOR5 wrote:

What has Manfredi done to upset you? Before injury he was in sensational form, in his last full season was 4th top scorer and made great yards coming from the back.

Yes he’s injured and we can’t be certain he will come back the same player, but you seem to be certain he won’t? Tom Johnstone ruptured his ACL and has come back in fine form, so why won’t Manfredi? If he comes back and isn’t the same player then fine, but until then I’ll base his ability based on what we know he can do.

You've completely missed my point. And clearly have selective reading on my posts.

IMO, when in-form, before his injury layoff he the winger I rated the most. But facts are facts. All I've said is I don't know how he'll return, or even if he'll return. He if comes back and is anything like he was before he left he'd be my first choice winger.