Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:45 pm  

Well, I'm in the "very unhappy if it goes through" camp. And, in common with others, I'd say it isn't just (or even mostly) about the coke.

And on the pitch, we don't need him that much. But it's not about that, anyway. He shouldn't be anywhere near the club.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:46 pm  

The Whiffy Kipper wrote:

I wouldn't have thought he'd know much about it being a Saints fan

Not like you to be funny.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:51 pm  

It’s a weird one this. On one hand his talent is for all to see and the chance of a former MOS in on a freebie is tempting. On the other his signing would be a massive risk (yes there would be clauses to protect the club) but the danger out there is the club’s reputation as a family club.

What would this say to the young lads on scholarship, or the lads and girls coming through the local amateur clubs? The club are making strides in the community (Ladies team...etc) but to me this would set the wrong message in my opinion, he’s not even been informed how long his ban will be yet (two years is being quoted).

Could a banned & bored Hardaker even stay out of trouble for 18 months? With the media frenzy it could very well be a unwanted distraction to our next two seasons.

Nah....not for me, but I’m not the Chairman.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:47 pm  

If the deal was good for the club then yea go for it although he's a heed the ball, a great player, one who could if he can find his form again do good things for the club on the field at least.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:47 am  

I'm not sure that taking the high moral ground is a luxury the club can afford.

Doing the right thing is of course important - but there is that old argument that when someone has done their time, past indiscretions should be scrubbed. If you don't believe in that, then I'd suggest you're not actually a moral person, despite your protestations.

I'd point to the fact that many RL stars of past and present - Wigan heroes among them - would not have graced our fields had we adopted a blanket 'you must be perfect' approach.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:29 am  

Cruncher wrote:

I'm not sure that taking the high moral ground is a luxury the club can afford.

Doing the right thing is of course important - but there is that old argument that when someone has done their time, past indiscretions should be scrubbed. If you don't believe in that, then I'd suggest you're not actually a moral person, despite your protestations.

I'd point to the fact that many RL stars of past and present - Wigan heroes among them - would not have graced our fields were we to adopt a blanket 'you must be perfect' approach.

I'd agree if it was just the drug use, but this guy repeatedly does things that bring his club into disrepute and rules himself out of big games (2 x World Cups, 1 x Grand Final, 1 x relegation battle so far). Even taking the morality standpoint out of it, what are the odds that he leaves us in the lurch when we need him?

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:36 am  

Grimmy wrote:

I'd agree if it was just the drug use, but this guy repeatedly does things that bring his club into disrepute and rules himself out of big games (2 x World Cups, 1 x Grand Final, 1 x relegation battle so far). Even taking the morality standpoint out of it, what are the odds that he leaves us in the lurch when we need him?

I totally agree that's a risk.

So IF it happens, I'll be interested to hear what safeguards the club has built into the contract. As long as we can kick him out at no cost to ourselves if he fouls up again, I don't see too much to worry about on that front. It's not like we've shed players of great value in order to bring him in. FPN and Gells? Personally, I'm not bothered about losing either of those two.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:49 am  

Cruncher wrote:

I totally agree that's a risk.

So IF it happens, I'll be interested to hear what safeguards the club has built into the contract. As long as we can kick him out at no cost to ourselves if he fouls up again, I don't see too much to worry about on that front. It's not like we've shed players of great value in order to bring him him. FPN and Gells? Personally, I'm not bothered about either of those two.

Gells money presumably spent on Sarginson, I'm guessing if we had much money left under the cap, then we would have retained McIlorum. Granted FPN has left since then, but doubt that he was on a similar wage to what Hardaker would command (bloody hope not anyway!).

You know how it is with a salary capped sport, you can only afford a few big names, and can't generally have quality experienced players sat in reserve waiting to step up. My guess would be that Escare+1 would have to go, Tomkins would play in the halves, and Hardaker ballsing up would mean someone having to step up to play halfback, so that Tomkins could go to Full Back. Of course that's speculation and loads can change in two years or so, but what we can be sure of, is that there will be a salary cap in place, and he would take a chunk of it, meaning we would need to be able to rely upon him.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:10 am  

Grimmy wrote:

Gells money presumably spent on Sarginson, I'm guessing if we had much money left under the cap, then we would have retained McIlorum. Granted FPN has left since then, but doubt that he was on a similar wage to what Hardaker would command (bloody hope not anyway!).

You know how it is with a salary capped sport, you can only afford a few big names, and can't generally have quality experienced players sat in reserve waiting to step up. My guess would be that Escare+1 would have to go, Tomkins would play in the halves, and Hardaker ballsing up would mean someone having to step up to play halfback, so that Tomkins could go to Full Back. Of course that's speculation and loads can change in two years or so, but what we can be sure of, is that there will be a salary cap in place, and he would take a chunk of it, meaning we would need to be able to rely upon him.

Ultimately, we won't know what's happening until it happens, cliche though that is.

I should state that I'm not 100% in favour of signing Hardaker. But I've said a number of times that I think we are star-lite at present. We simply don't have enough game-breakers, and the insurmountable problem these days - salary cap, etc - is that they aren't as available as they once were. So, on the rare occasions when they come along, what do we do?

On another thread, Jonh, a poster I respect a lot, is expressing concern about us signing bad boys. My own feeling is that, while signing bad boys is never ideal, sometimes you've no option if you want to get great players on the field. Aussie stars only tend to come here these days if they've messed up Down Under. Obvious recent examples are Chris Sandow and Ben Barba; both were high-risk signings, and Sandow ultimately didn't work out (who knows what'll happen with Barba), but these guys are the kind of mercurial talents we rarely see on British RL pitches these days. I wouldn't quite put Hardaker in that category, but we know that he's capable of astonishing performances - and at Wigan we are really in need of something like that.

So, while I'm unsure about this, I think there are potential positives as well as negatives.

Re: Hardaker dismissed by Cas : Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:12 am  

I reckon Hardaker will play at centre if his ban is 12 matches and plays this season. We have plenty players for all other positions but centre. We now have Sarge out of form and at Wire it looks like Bateman will play there.
If is a 2 year ban then who knows what the squad will look like for the start of the 2020 season.