FORUMS FORUMS




   WWW.RLFANS.COM • View topic - Allegations of criminal offences by sportsmen
::Off-topic discussion.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Board Member8633No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 27 200322 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
22nd Jun 15 22:3022nd Jun 15 21:57LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Signature
God is nothing more than an imaginary friend for grown ups.

Cibaman - If you look at the case cited by Ferocious Ardvark, you'll find that they were willing participants too, yet felt the whole weight of the law.

Where is the real difference?
Ajw71 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach1978No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 23 200619 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
19th Dec 23 20:2714th Dec 19 14:13LINK
Milestone Posts
1000
2500
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Cibaman wrote:
Boxers "fight" as a matter of course but clearly aren't breaking the law. They are willing participants. They're not committing affray (as might be the case in a pub brawl) because a bystander wouldnt be put in fear by their actions.

Context if everything.


But boxers sometimes commit more harm to an opponent than you can consent to in law?!
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach13190No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Mar 05 200718 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
1st Feb 20 09:2114th Oct 19 16:58LINK
Milestone Posts
10000
15000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Hedon (sometimes), sometimes Premier Inn's
Signature
'when my life is over, the thing which will have given me greatest pride is that I was first to plunge into the sea, swimming freely underwater without any connection to the terrestrial world'

Yves Le Prieur, the real inventor of the aqualung

McLaren_Field wrote:
Surely you have to enforce the criminal law above any sport rules and regulations though ?



Although some industries seem to have standards above the law of the land. On 5 live today several public bodies were asked what would happen to an employee in their particular field under such circumstances where racial incidents had been alleged. It seems that if you are a teacher and are prosecuted in a court of law and a jury of your peers finds you not guilty, you can still be dismissed after all that, as is also the case in the prison service.

It seems the word alone of the 'offended' person is enough in these professions to render the due process of the law irrelevant.

While the offence of racial crimes should not be tolerated in any walk of life, are we now saying that our laws are not enough to prevent your conviction by other means should you prove your innocence in a court of law. It seems a charter for anyone with a grudge to be able to destroy the life of another by accusation, rather than proof.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Club Coach6392No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Oct 10 200420 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
4th Aug 17 01:119th Jan 14 09:13LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Glasgow

Wnidyone2012 wrote:
I thought maybe wrongly that Big Dunc was done for the head butt and other factors played a part in the prison sentance and not some community punishment.


He'd been done for assault before, more than once. The ref at the game missed it and the SFA used video evidence to ban him later for 10 or 12 matches iirc.
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman32466No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 26 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
7th Aug 18 19:235th Aug 18 15:14LINK
Milestone Posts
30000
40000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Leeds
Signature
Someday everything is gonna be different, When I paint my masterpiece
------------------------------------------------------
The Jerry Chicken Blog Page
------------------------------------------------------
BUY MY ART ONLINE AT ARTGALLERY.CO.UK

AT THE RIPPINGHAM GALLERY
....................................................................
ART PROFILE
...................................................................
On Twitter
...................................................................
On Facebook
...................................................................

rover49 wrote:
Although some industries seem to have standards above the law of the land. On 5 live today several public bodies were asked what would happen to an employee in their particular field under such circumstances where racial incidents had been alleged. It seems that if you are a teacher and are prosecuted in a court of law and a jury of your peers finds you not guilty, you can still be dismissed after all that, as is also the case in the prison service.

It seems the word alone of the 'offended' person is enough in these professions to render the due process of the law irrelevant.

While the offence of racial crimes should not be tolerated in any walk of life, are we now saying that our laws are not enough to prevent your conviction by other means should you prove your innocence in a court of law. It seems a charter for anyone with a grudge to be able to destroy the life of another by accusation, rather than proof.


Personally, if I were a teacher or in a profession under similar duress and threat of summary dismissal on the word of another, then I would find myself a union with a record of defending its members properly in an employment tribunal - possibly that is the reason why teaching and other civil service unions are still quite strong ?
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman28357
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 17 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
2nd May 24 20:2424th Oct 19 15:32LINK
Milestone Posts
25000
30000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
MACS0647-JD
Signature
Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total

Ajw71 wrote:
But boxers sometimes commit more harm to an opponent than you can consent to in law?!


No, because it starts off with the winning card that it is a "lawful activity". Boxing has managed (to date) to retain a legal get out of jail card, on the grounds that boxing per se is a lawful activity. And that legal classification makes all the difference, because even when violence is intentionally inflicted and results in actual bodily harm, wounding or serious bodily harm there is no offence committed if the injury was a foreseeable incident of a lawful activity in which the person injured was participating.

This lawful status was very much a split decision.

There is no intellectual justification making boxing legal though many have tried. It is just it has become widely accepted (though by no means unanimously) as useful to society, and professional boxing rides immune on the back of that (for now). The issue in the case of boxing is simply whether it is a "lawful activity", and in the past, the Courts have on balance held that it is.

It was never a unanimous view. In a venerable 1803 legal tome, referring to violent physical pursuits such as wrestling, prize-fighting and boxing, East said:
"the latitude given to manly exercises of the nature above described, when conducted merely as diversions among friends, must not be extended to legalise prize-fighting, public boxing matches and the like, which are exhibited for the sake of lucre, and are calculated to draw together a number of idle disorderly people..."

Many would, two centuries later, concede he had a point.

The court commented in Brown:
"That the court is in such cases making a value-judgment, not dependant
upon any general theory of consent is exposed by the failure of any attempt
to deduce why professional boxing appears to be immune from prosecution.
For money, not recreation or personal improvement, each boxer tries to hurt
the opponent more than he is hurt himself, and aims to end the contest
prematurely by inflicting a brain injury serious enough to make the opponent
unconscious, or temporarily by impairing his central nervous system through
a blow to the midriff, or cutting his skin to a degree which would ordinarily
be well within the scope of section 20. The boxers display skill, strength and
courage, but nobody pretends that they do good to themselves or others. The
onlookers derive entertainment, but none of the physical and moral benefits
which have been seen as the fruits of engagement in manly sports. I intend no
disrespect to the valuable judgment of McInearny J. in Pallante v. Stadiums Pty.
1976] V.R. 331[an Australian decision] when I say that the heroic efforts of that
learned judge to arrive at an intellectually satisfying account of the apparent immunity
of professional boxing from criminal process have convinced me that the task is
impossible. It is in my judgment best to regard this as another special situation
which for the time being stands outside the ordinary law of violence because
society chooses to tolerate it.
"
Adamjk 
User avatar
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach3796
JoinedServiceReputation
Feb 23 200619 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
5th Nov 21 13:172nd Oct 16 14:46LINK
Milestone Posts
2500
5000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530

Slightly off point, but would a similar case to Brown be decided the same if it came before the Supreme Court today? It's almost a 20 year old ruling now and there's some pretty old fashioned views on show from the majority. It was decided largely on the basis of the protection of morals, at a time when AIDS was probably still a big talking point. It's interesting reading the differences in opinion from the majority and the dissenting judgments - can't help but think that 20 years later, that case would have gone the other way...
RankPostsTeam
International Chairman6038No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Apr 10 200223 yearsN/A
OnlineLast PostLast Page
3rd Mar 17 10:5527th Feb 17 17:36LINK
Milestone Posts
5000
10000
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Bradford

Scooter Nik wrote:
Cibaman - If you look at the case cited by Ferocious Ardvark, you'll find that they were willing participants too, yet felt the whole weight of the law.


Where is the real difference?


It comes down to whether an observer would feel personally threatened. In a boxing match the participants are ringed off from the speccies as are fans at a rugby match. The difference between those types of fights and say a pub brawl is that the latter is much more likely to spill over and result in injury to innocent bystanders.
Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 67 guests

REPLY

Subject: 
Message:
   
Please note using apple style emoji's can result in posting failures.
Use the FULL EDITOR to better format content or upload images, be notified of replies etc...

Return to The Sin Bin


RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Chris71
318
5m
Leeds away first up
Pat Bateman
419
8m
Salford
Khlav Kalash
12
11m
TV Games - Not Hull
odd shaped b
3286
15m
Film game
BOSS HOG
7795
16m
BORED The Band Name Game
BOSS HOG
65056
31m
Next week v Fev
Returnwr to
1
33m
Round 1 - London H
Bull Mania
49
33m
Todays match v Giants
Smiffy27
61
48m
New Screen
Bully_Boxer
9
52m
Superleague
fez1
12
Recent
Recruitment rumours and links
Matt King's
3913
Recent
Sheffield away
Bullseye
12
Recent
Leigh h
RoyBoy29
84
Recent
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
TV games not Wire
ninearches
3732
3s
Betting 2025
karetaker
70
4s
TV Games - Not Hull
odd shaped b
3286
4s
RL Challenge Cup
rollin thund
84
5s
Rumours and signings v9
Cokey
29247
7s
Super League
Pat Bateman
122
7s
Leeds away first up
Pat Bateman
419
9s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Dave K.
5045
13s
Sheffield away
Bullseye
12
16s
Todays match v Giants
Smiffy27
61
19s
Leeds v Wakefield
REDWHITEANDB
165
20s
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
21s
New Screen
Bully_Boxer
9
27s
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
873
33s
Round 1 - London H
Bull Mania
49
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Next week v Fev
Returnwr to
1
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Off To A Winning Start Over the Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Ronan Michael podcast
Bullseye
1
TODAY
Superleague
fez1
12
TODAY
Todays match v Giants
Smiffy27
61
TODAY
Salford
Khlav Kalash
12
TODAY
Stats thread
Shifty Cat
4
TODAY
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
TODAY
St Helens Record Highest Winning Margin In Super League As They Thrash Salford
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Next round of Challenge Cup
Bully_Boxer
3
TODAY
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
TODAY
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Round Draw
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Off To A Win..
103
St Helens Record Highest Winni..
298
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Ro..
606
Wakefield Trinity Mark Return ..
405
Hull FC Start Season With Big ..
214
Leigh Leopards Win Golden Poin..
448
Bradford Bulls Spring Cup Shoc..
727
Hull FC Overcome Brave York Ac..
715
Easy Cup Progress For The Rhin..
761
Easy For Hull KR against Valia..
709
Betfred Super League Season Se..
922
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
905
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1537
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
1330
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
1390
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield12-20Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington - Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Sun 16th Feb
SL 1 Huddersfield12-20Warrington
CH 1 Bradford20-6LondonB
CH 1 Featherstone22-4Doncaster
CH 1 Oldham50-4York
CH 1 Sheffield14-28Halifax
CH 1 Barrow36-12Hunslet
1895 0 Goole V26-18Crusaders
1895 0 Workington10-18Dewsbury
1895 0 Rochdale18-16Swinton
1895 0 Keighley7-6Midlands
Sat 15th Feb
SL1 Leeds12-14Wakefield
SL 1 St.Helens82-0Salford
CH 1 Toulouse14-18Widnes
Fri 14th Feb
SL 1 Hull KR19-18Castleford
SL 1 Catalans4-24Hull FC
Thu 13th Feb
SL 1 Wigan0-1Leigh
Sun 9th Feb
CC2025 3 Bradford18-16Castleford
CC2025 3 Featherstone68-0Ince R
CC2025 3 Hunslet6-34Huddersfield
CC2025 3 Midlands10-46Salford
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
2m
Catalans Away - 14th Feb
Chris71
318
5m
Leeds away first up
Pat Bateman
419
8m
Salford
Khlav Kalash
12
11m
TV Games - Not Hull
odd shaped b
3286
15m
Film game
BOSS HOG
7795
16m
BORED The Band Name Game
BOSS HOG
65056
31m
Next week v Fev
Returnwr to
1
33m
Round 1 - London H
Bull Mania
49
33m
Todays match v Giants
Smiffy27
61
48m
New Screen
Bully_Boxer
9
52m
Superleague
fez1
12
Recent
Recruitment rumours and links
Matt King's
3913
Recent
Sheffield away
Bullseye
12
Recent
Leigh h
RoyBoy29
84
Recent
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1s
TV games not Wire
ninearches
3732
3s
Betting 2025
karetaker
70
4s
TV Games - Not Hull
odd shaped b
3286
4s
RL Challenge Cup
rollin thund
84
5s
Rumours and signings v9
Cokey
29247
7s
Super League
Pat Bateman
122
7s
Leeds away first up
Pat Bateman
419
9s
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Dave K.
5045
13s
Sheffield away
Bullseye
12
16s
Todays match v Giants
Smiffy27
61
19s
Leeds v Wakefield
REDWHITEANDB
165
20s
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
21s
New Screen
Bully_Boxer
9
27s
Transfer Talk V5
Once were Lo
873
33s
Round 1 - London H
Bull Mania
49
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Next week v Fev
Returnwr to
1
TODAY
Warrington Wolves Off To A Winning Start Over the Huddersfield Giants
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Ronan Michael podcast
Bullseye
1
TODAY
Superleague
fez1
12
TODAY
Todays match v Giants
Smiffy27
61
TODAY
Salford
Khlav Kalash
12
TODAY
Stats thread
Shifty Cat
4
TODAY
IMG
Deadcowboys1
6
TODAY
St Helens Record Highest Winning Margin In Super League As They Thrash Salford
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Next round of Challenge Cup
Bully_Boxer
3
TODAY
Challenge cup draw
Big lads mat
12
TODAY
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Round Draw
RLFANS News
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
Warrington Wolves Off To A Win..
103
St Helens Record Highest Winni..
298
Challenge Cup 2025 - Fourth Ro..
606
Wakefield Trinity Mark Return ..
405
Hull FC Start Season With Big ..
214
Leigh Leopards Win Golden Poin..
448
Bradford Bulls Spring Cup Shoc..
727
Hull FC Overcome Brave York Ac..
715
Easy Cup Progress For The Rhin..
761
Easy For Hull KR against Valia..
709
Betfred Super League Season Se..
922
Thirteen Try York Knights Set ..
905
Comfortable Ash Handley Testim..
1537
Workington Town Set Up Leigh L..
1330
Historic Goole Vikings Win Ove..
1390


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!