Re: Lest we forget : Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:42 am  

Cronus wrote:

But seriously, really? You couldn't name the century?

Hint: they were all within a 100 years of one another and almost within the same century (and there were 2 Boer Wars).

Even with my casual interest in history I could probably name and roughly date the majority of significant conflicts across the globe going back to the Punic Wars. That's not me being a smartarse, I assumed most reasonably intelligent adults above a certain age could do the same to one degree or another.

I could have guessed. In fact I just did & got them right according to google. My O level history was so long ago I cannot remember anything we studied apart from WW1 & 2. Ironically I can still recite the events leading up to the outbreaks as I did it for my exam. Other than that I have no interest in military history. A lot of it tends to be written by those who romanticise it.

Re: Lest we forget : Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:30 pm  

Mild Rover wrote: Possibly showing my age here, but I was a little taken aback by this clip from The Apprentice, in which contestants express uncertainty about the years in which the Second World War started and ended. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07s9hwj I’m not looking to demonise these young men and women, and in fairness they do initially get it right. It feels like such basic historical knowledge for my generation (born in the 1970s), that you take it for granted. Is it surprising, or is it inevitable that it’ll fade from public consciousness in the coming decades? Realistically, how many people of any age in the UK could now give the start and end years for the Boer War, or the Crimean War or the year of the Battle of Waterloo, off the top of their heads? And being honest, I have just had to check whether the Falklands was in ‘82 or ‘83, and I saw the news coverage myself as a child. Ultimately, is it even natural and healthy that it eventually comes to be viewed like those earlier conflicts? Although I appreciate the difference in scale, obviously. The Orange Walks commemorating a battle that took place in 1690 look a little strange to me in the 21st century, for example. As I have just "ranted" in the Boris thread, it would seem selective education is not a new thing. The OP refers to the Boer war, unaware it would seem that there were 2 Boer Wars, the second of which the British Lost (only 2 wars that they lost in the 20th century, the second being the Irish war of independence. There's a lack of realistic information/education as to what went on in Europe between the "wars' as well, with the reasons behind the rise of nationalism in Germany and the Balkan states being driven by a period of austerity forced upon them by the winning imperial forces.......smacks of a hint of familiarity with current sentiments.....blaming someone else for the hardships being felt at home, in 1930's Germany, it was the Jews, in 2019 Britain, it's the immigrants. British history is happy to ignore the schism in the Christian Churches caused by the overzealous libido of your monarch. English History teaches little if anything of the birth of the concentration camps......or the Irish Famine, or the Penal colonies in the 'stralias, of the Irish slaves in America (have you ever wondered why West Indians sound Irish or why bottled Guinness is so popular with the Caribbean community. The Orange Marches by the way are a right of passage. Like a dog pissing on it's territory, the protestants of Ulster (google the plantation of ulster...another british highpoint)march and bang drums because they are in fear of the fact that they will soon be a minority and the false country they live in (Britains good at false countries...Pakistan, Israel.....). The Irish Famine didn;t impact on the norther counties populated by Protestants by the way......nor the scottish areas where the potato blight also impacted on crops, but British Land Owners in the US benefited from an influx of free irish labour..... The History taught your kids isn't about educating them. Its about telling the what the wealthy want them to know!

Mild Rover wrote: Possibly showing my age here, but I was a little taken aback by this clip from The Apprentice, in which contestants express uncertainty about the years in which the Second World War started and ended. https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07s9hwj I’m not looking to demonise these young men and women, and in fairness they do initially get it right. It feels like such basic historical knowledge for my generation (born in the 1970s), that you take it for granted. Is it surprising, or is it inevitable that it’ll fade from public consciousness in the coming decades? Realistically, how many people of any age in the UK could now give the start and end years for the Boer War, or the Crimean War or the year of the Battle of Waterloo, off the top of their heads? And being honest, I have just had to check whether the Falklands was in ‘82 or ‘83, and I saw the news coverage myself as a child. Ultimately, is it even natural and healthy that it eventually comes to be viewed like those earlier conflicts? Although I appreciate the difference in scale, obviously. The Orange Walks commemorating a battle that took place in 1690 look a little strange to me in the 21st century, for example. As I have just "ranted" in the Boris thread, it would seem selective education is not a new thing. The OP refers to the Boer war, unaware it would seem that there were 2 Boer Wars, the second of which the British Lost (only 2 wars that they lost in the 20th century, the second being the Irish war of independence. There's a lack of realistic information/education as to what went on in Europe between the "wars' as well, with the reasons behind the rise of nationalism in Germany and the Balkan states being driven by a period of austerity forced upon them by the winning imperial forces.......smacks of a hint of familiarity with current sentiments.....blaming someone else for the hardships being felt at home, in 1930's Germany, it was the Jews, in 2019 Britain, it's the immigrants. British history is happy to ignore the schism in the Christian Churches caused by the overzealous libido of your monarch. English History teaches little if anything of the birth of the concentration camps......or the Irish Famine, or the Penal colonies in the 'stralias, of the Irish slaves in America (have you ever wondered why West Indians sound Irish or why bottled Guinness is so popular with the Caribbean community. The Orange Marches by the way are a right of passage. Like a dog pissing on it's territory, the protestants of Ulster (google the plantation of ulster...another british highpoint)march and bang drums because they are in fear of the fact that they will soon be a minority and the false country they live in (Britains good at false countries...Pakistan, Israel.....). The Irish Famine didn;t impact on the norther counties populated by Protestants by the way......nor the scottish areas where the potato blight also impacted on crops, but British Land Owners in the US benefited from an influx of free irish labour..... The History taught your kids isn't about educating them. Its about telling the what the wealthy want them to know!

Re: Lest we forget : Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:30 am  

AXE2GRIND wrote:

As I have just "ranted" in the Boris thread, it would seem selective education is not a new thing. The OP refers to the Boer war, unaware it would seem that there were 2 Boer Wars, the second of which the British Lost (only 2 wars that they lost in the 20th century, the second being the Irish war of independence.

There's a lack of realistic information/education as to what went on in Europe between the "wars' as well, with the reasons behind the rise of nationalism in Germany and the Balkan states being driven by a period of austerity forced upon them by the winning imperial forces.......smacks of a hint of familiarity with current sentiments.....blaming someone else for the hardships being felt at home, in 1930's Germany, it was the Jews, in 2019 Britain, it's the immigrants.

British history is happy to ignore the schism in the Christian Churches caused by the overzealous libido of your monarch. English History teaches little if anything of the birth of the concentration camps......or the Irish Famine, or the Penal colonies in the 'stralias, of the Irish slaves in America (have you ever wondered why West Indians sound Irish or why bottled Guinness is so popular with the Caribbean community.

The Orange Marches by the way are a right of passage. Like a dog pissing on it's territory, the protestants of Ulster (google the plantation of ulster...another british highpoint)march and bang drums because they are in fear of the fact that they will soon be a minority and the false country they live in (Britains good at false countries...Pakistan, Israel.....). The Irish Famine didn;t impact on the norther counties populated by Protestants by the way......nor the scottish areas where the potato blight also impacted on crops, but British Land Owners in the US benefited from an influx of free irish labour.....

The History taught your kids isn't about educating them. Its about telling the what the wealthy want them to know!

Cant argue with any of that but, there are plenty that still dont understand the class structure and pretend that it is a thing of the past.
Occasionally we are thrown a few scraps just to keep up the pretence that we are all equal.

Re: Lest we forget : Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:13 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Cant argue with any of that but, there are plenty that still dont understand the class structure and pretend that it is a thing of the past.
Occasionally we are thrown a few scraps just to keep up the pretence that we are all equal.

Life is not fair it is not meant to be fair - there will always be more intelligent humans, humans with greater sporting prowess, humans with superior physical capabilities. We are not all equal - its the biggest flaw in Socialist/Marxist/Communist theory.

Re: Lest we forget : Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:04 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Life is not fair it is not meant to be fair - there will always be more intelligent humans, humans with greater sporting prowess, humans with superior physical capabilities. We are not all equal - its the biggest flaw in Socialist/Marxist/Communist theory.

There is no socialist theory that suggests that everyone is equal; or that life is, or should be, 'fair.' You're just talking nonsense.

The mantra is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution," which is actually the opposite of what you're suggesting.

Re: Lest we forget : Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:48 pm  

bren2k wrote:

There is no socialist theory that suggests that everyone is equal; or that life is, or should be, 'fair.' You're just talking nonsense.

The mantra is "From each according to his ability, to each according to his contribution," which is actually the opposite of what you're suggesting.

Depends on your interpretation of Socialism.

Socialist mantra is about we all share in the wealth created. Sadly that doesn't work because those that generate the wealth struggle to see why they should be equally rewarded as those that contribute less. Simple theory against reality and as soon as you add the human it doesn't work and their is no example of an out and out Socialist state that has seen its country prosper.

Re: Lest we forget : Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:53 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Depends on your interpretation of Socialism.

Socialist mantra is about we all share in the wealth created. Sadly that doesn't work because those that generate the wealth struggle to see why they should be equally rewarded as those that contribute less. Simple theory against reality and as soon as you add the human it doesn't work and their is no example of an out and out Socialist state that has seen its country prosper.

You've literally ignored what I provided - and doubled down with a liberal sprinkling of ill-informed nonsense, that has no basis in the democratic socialist model that is being proposed by the Labour party.

For the final time - whatever you think an 'out and out Socialist state' actually is - that isn't what's being talked about.

You seem to have loads of free time to post on here, I assume in comfort breaks between running your massive business empire? Maybe use some of it to read something about at least some of the things you spend time talking about?

Re: Lest we forget : Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:05 pm  

bren2k wrote:

You seem to have loads of free time to post on here, I assume in comfort breaks between running your massive business empire?

More likely to be in his mums spare bedroom with a crusty sock staring at posters of his heroic captains of industry, Branson, Dyson and Simon Cowell.

Re: Lest we forget : Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:20 pm  

bren2k wrote:

You've literally ignored what I provided - and doubled down with a liberal sprinkling of ill-informed nonsense, that has no basis in the democratic socialist model that is being proposed by the Labour party.

For the final time - whatever you think an 'out and out Socialist state' actually is - that isn't what's being talked about.

You seem to have loads of free time to post on here, I assume in comfort breaks between running your massive business empire? Maybe use some of it to read something about at least some of the things you spend time talking about?

What is being talked about here - perhaps listen to McDonald's interview with Dale - by his own admission he wants to bring as much as possible into public ownership. On the NHS - we are going to manufacture our own drugs and not buy them from anyone - so how are we going to develop new drugs? Where are we going to buy clinical equipment - according to McDonald everything relating to the NHS will be sourced from public companies. The private element of the NHS is 7% its was 6% under the last Labour government he say it will all go even if it cost more to source from all this public companies - its bonkers!!


The NHS is a huge opportunity for the Tories to dismantle the Labour policy - Ashworth is one of the weakest MPs out there.

"We have already shown that the workers, although they produce all the wealth of society, have no control over its production or distribution: the people, who are the only really organic part of society, are treated as a mere appendage to capital - as a part of its machinery. This must be altered from the foundation: the land, the capital, the machinery, factories, workshops, stores, means of transit, mines, banking, all means of production and distribution of wealth, must be declared and treated as the common property of all." William Morris

Morris is one of McDonald's regularly quotes influences