Re: Maggie Thatcher eco warrior ? : Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:00 pm  

Durham Giant wrote:

I think that you will find that most of the early closures under Atlee Wilson and Heath were due to the fact that the pits were no longer capable of producing coal or were not safe. Everyone accepts that coal,seams get mined out and are effectively EMPTY of coal. What you will also find is that when those pits closed miners tended to move to other areas . So you had lots of Durham miners go to Northumberland or down to Notts.

The. Closures under Thatcher in the main were of pits That still had Coal . Often it was coal that could still be mined but not at a price that was as cheap as polish coal or even Australian So they were deemed uneconomic. I am still waiting for wotsupcas to provide evidence that it cosy £400 to produce £1 of coal as that is. It something I ever heard during the strike. Many economic arguements were put forward which clearly said that the making of miners be unemployed far outweighed the losses on any coal mined. It was a pure free market economic arguement to close them down allied to the attempts to destroy the Trade Unions and allow for a much more free market approach to running the economy.

It didn't matter that the pits had coal they were economically unviable to mine in part because of the unions ,under wilson and Heath the pits that closed downs work force could not be made redundant and so got moved to other pits which in turn made them unviable ,so a combination of mickey weak government and bolshoi unions helped to accelerate the demise of the coal industry in this country

Re: Maggie Thatcher eco warrior ? : Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:00 am  

wotsupcas wrote:

It was hardly Thatchers mess as she left office in 1990. Majors mess maybe but tbf the economy was in pretty good shape in 1997 when the electorate were taken in by snake oil salesman Blair

Tbf, the Leaders that followed Thatcher into office were always going to come up short and the Tory lead just narrowed and narrowed with each new leader, until, finally, something had to break.
Blair made some huge mistakes as PM, notably the PFI on Schools and hospitals (although they were, at the time seen as quick fixes) and of course, the illegal war in the Middle East, although, this was heavily supported by the Tories and there is little doubt that, it would have still happened whoever was in power. However, when you compare the politics of Thatcher and Blair
there was certainly a different "tone" to their style.
Thatcher was very much "look after no 1 and sod the rest", whereas Blair seemed rather more inclusive.

[PopTart]

Re: Maggie Thatcher eco warrior ? : Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:42 pm  

It's probably already been covered but I put more of the blame on Scargill than I do on Thatcher.
Whether she was what you wanted or not, she was elected and was defending her policies.
Scargill was not elected by the country and even went against those that did vote for him.
His strategy was flawed from the beginning and just handed the win to Thatcher because of his personal ego in many cases.
The miners that suffered, suffered badly and much of it could have been avoided. (I realise that's easy to say with hindsight)

Re: Maggie Thatcher eco warrior ? : Wed Dec 15, 2021 7:16 pm  

PopTart wrote:

It's probably already been covered but I put more of the blame on Scargill than I do on Thatcher.
Whether she was what you wanted or not, she was elected and was defending her policies.
Scargill was not elected by the country and even went against those that did vote for him.
His strategy was flawed from the beginning and just handed the win to Thatcher because of his personal ego in many cases.
The miners that suffered, suffered badly and much of it could have been avoided. (I realise that's easy to say with hindsight)

Thank you for your potted history of the dispute, where did you get the information from, Thatcher's autobiography?

I could dissect this post & give an alternative version, but what would be the point, you're too intransigent & I'm too tired to care.

[PopTart]

Re: Maggie Thatcher eco warrior ? : Thu Dec 16, 2021 11:09 am  

The Devil's Advocate wrote:

Thank you for your potted history of the dispute, where did you get the information from, Thatcher's autobiography?

I could dissect this post & give an alternative version, but what would be the point, you're too intransigent & I'm too tired to care.

Id be happy to discuss.
Don't get my wrong, I'm not suggesting Thatcher did good things, but Scargill's role has been very well documented. It wasn't just a war of good versus evil as some would have it. It was two divisive leaders getting their agenda through at the expense of the guy on the coal face.

The miners were stuffed just as much by the unions as the government.
Its a matter of law now that solicitors and union leaders have been taken to court and in prison for mistreating union members over VBF claims fraud.
Not everyone came out of the miners strike poor..... And that is travesty here. IMHO.

I'm not in the mining industry but I lived through the miners strike in a mining area and my family has generations of miners before me. So I have no love for the destruction of the industry, but I am also open enough to see all sides of the argument.