5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:01 am  

The Rotherham by-election result shows a lot more than any mid-term blues for the coalition. Rotherhamgrad may not be the tories happiest hunting ground but trailing behind three minor parties must really hurt and the LimpDems losing their deposit after polling less than an English Democrat and a local vicar standing as an independent is mothing short of an unmitigated disaster. The people of Rotherham had better watch out though, I've no doubt that Porky Pickles will find some method to hold them to account.

The Rotherham by-election result shows a lot more than any mid-term blues for the coalition. Rotherhamgrad may not be the tories happiest hunting ground but trailing behind three minor parties must really hurt and the LimpDems losing their deposit after polling less than an English Democrat and a local vicar standing as an independent is mothing short of an unmitigated disaster. The people of Rotherham had better watch out though, I've no doubt that Porky Pickles will find some method to hold them to account.

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:26 am  

cod'ead wrote: The Rotherham by-election result shows a lot more than any mid-term blues for the coalition. Rotherhamgrad may not be the tories happiest hunting ground but trailing behind three minor parties must really hurt and the LimpDems losing their deposit after polling less than an English Democrat and a local vicar standing as an independent is mothing short of an unmitigated disaster. The people of Rotherham had better watch out though, I've no doubt that Porky Pickles will find some method to hold them to account. Lib Dem 8th in Rotherham. I wouldn't vote for a middle aged man with a pony tail either

cod'ead wrote: The Rotherham by-election result shows a lot more than any mid-term blues for the coalition. Rotherhamgrad may not be the tories happiest hunting ground but trailing behind three minor parties must really hurt and the LimpDems losing their deposit after polling less than an English Democrat and a local vicar standing as an independent is mothing short of an unmitigated disaster. The people of Rotherham had better watch out though, I've no doubt that Porky Pickles will find some method to hold them to account. Lib Dem 8th in Rotherham. I wouldn't vote for a middle aged man with a pony tail either

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:03 pm  

Looks like the tories may be considering a move to the right in order to win back the UKIP ship-jumpers. Claire Khaw was drummed out of the BNP for being too reactionary, she's recently joined the Conservative & Unionist Party. Fine bedfellows methinks, this pic should make the 2013 official calendar

Looks like the tories may be considering a move to the right in order to win back the UKIP ship-jumpers. Claire Khaw was drummed out of the BNP for being too reactionary, she's recently joined the Conservative & Unionist Party. Fine bedfellows methinks, this pic should make the 2013 official calendar

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Fri Nov 30, 2012 12:47 pm  

cod'ead wrote: Looks like the tories may be considering a move to the right in order to win back the UKIP ship-jumpers. Claire Khaw was drummed out of the BNP for being too reactionary, she's recently joined the Conservative & Unionist Party. Fine bedfellows methinks, this pic should make the 2013 official calendar I thought Woodrow Wyatt was the Voice of Reason anyway. From the opening few lines of that piece, she seems to be the Voice of Batshit Loony Tunery

cod'ead wrote: Looks like the tories may be considering a move to the right in order to win back the UKIP ship-jumpers. Claire Khaw was drummed out of the BNP for being too reactionary, she's recently joined the Conservative & Unionist Party. Fine bedfellows methinks, this pic should make the 2013 official calendar I thought Woodrow Wyatt was the Voice of Reason anyway. From the opening few lines of that piece, she seems to be the Voice of Batshit Loony Tunery

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:55 pm  

The most significant thing here is the apparent large rise of UKIP at the expense of the Tories.

UKIP increasing is a good thing IMO.

They are never going to eat into the vote of left leaning middle classes, liberals, greenies, students, trade unionists etc. The only vote UKIP will ever displace is Tory. They don't have a geographical concentration in any one area intense enough to win any seats in first past the post though, unlike Respect or the Greens.

So Nigel Farage's party will just eat away at the Tories.

I wish them every success.

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Fri Nov 30, 2012 10:08 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

The most significant thing here is the apparent large rise of UKIP at the expense of the Tories.

UKIP increasing is a good thing IMO.

They are never going to eat into the vote of left leaning middle classes, liberals, greenies, students, trade unionists etc. The only vote UKIP will ever displace is Tory. They don't have a geographical concentration in any one area intense enough to win any seats in first past the post though, unlike Respect or the Greens.

So Nigel Farage's party will just eat away at the Tories.

I wish them every success.

Yep, if I can attempt to suppress my delight at Agent Farage's excellent work for just a minute and look at it from a dispassionate point of view, UKIP is actually becoming a massive problem for the Tories. The Tories major benefit for decades has been the left/centre-left vote has been split between Labour & Lib Dems whereas the centre-right/right vote has been concentrated in the Tory Party. If that starts to split then they are in deep trouble.

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:34 am  

I'm confused by this idea that the most reactionary pro-business party in modern times and fascism are unlikely bedfellows.

What is fascism but capitalism with the gloves off? And David Cameron has certainly been without his for some time.

The truth of the matter is we have barely scratched the surface in terms of the spending cuts "required" to put us on a steady fiscal keel and so far the government (in cahoots with the media) has done an effective job of keeping a lid on society and preventing organised protest and civil unrest from "tearing the country apart" (a.k.a. distributing the nation's wealth in a more equitable way). But this is only possible for so long. At some point a large proportion of the country will ultimately realise that their credit reserves have run dry and outgoings exceed income. At this point the turd will hit the fan and you can bet that - just like Thatcher - Cameron will have no hesitation in signing off on increasingly draconian legislature (no doubt with a "heavy heart") to retain "stability". It's at this point - just as on Orwell's Animal Farm where the mystified animals are peering through the window unable to identify who is who - the tories and the fascists will be indistinguishable.

I refer to a pertinent quote by Michael Parenti which, although aimed at America, works perfectly well here, too:

"If Big Brother comes to America, he will not be a fearsome, foreboding figure with a heart-chilling, omniprescent glare as in 1984. He will come with a smile on his face, a quip on his lips, a wave to the crowd, and a press that (a) dutifully reports the suppressive measures he is taking to save the nation from internal chaos and foreign threat; and b) gingerly questions whether he will be able to succeed".

[DaveO]

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:45 am  

Him wrote:

Yep, if I can attempt to suppress my delight at Agent Farage's excellent work for just a minute and look at it from a dispassionate point of view, UKIP is actually becoming a massive problem for the Tories. The Tories major benefit for decades has been the left/centre-left vote has been split between Labour & Lib Dems whereas the centre-right/right vote has been concentrated in the Tory Party. If that starts to split then they are in deep trouble.

Reminds me of when the SDP split the Labour vote and gave the Tories a large majority. I remember looking at the results in the papers and numerous constituencies the combined Labour + SDP vote was significantly higher than the Tory vote but the Tory got in because of first past the post.

Come general election time I don't think UKIP will do as much damage to the Tory vote as the SDP did to the Labour vote. I think a lot of Tories who might vote UKIP in a by-election will return to the fold if it becomes obvious voting for UKIP will get Labour elected. The UKIP vote might send a few marginals Labour's way but I don't think we will be seeing any safe Tory seats going to Labour in the same way the SDP vote gave strong Labour seats to the Tories.

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:48 am  

Very recently there have been two occasions (the child welfare story and the proposed pact) where the Tories have allowed a sliver of commonality with UKIP to appear. Now, you can explain these events away by saying Cameron was making a (heroic) stand against bigoted social services bureaucrats meddling with the lives of decent, honest foster carers who just so happen to be members of UKIP and that the suggestion of collaboration with UKIP came from a political "loose canon" who is so far from Downing Street he takes the trans-Siberian express to parliament. But the fact remains that governments today are so heavily spin-stabilized very little gets out without being scripted. And up till recently the Tories have been very careful to avoid the words "UKIP" and "Tory" appearing on the same page together.

Yes, this could all be an unfortunate co-incidence. But I'm too long in the tooth and cynical not to suspect what would be simply one more in a long and dirty line of political "softening up" exercises stretching back to the dawn of time. Let's just wait and see whether these two distant orbiting masses are drawn together by gravity in the next few months or not.

Re: 5th behind UKIP, BNP & Respect? : Sat Dec 01, 2012 12:32 pm  

Don't think Dave and Nige are on each others Xmas card list, are they?

Mind, it didn't stop the likes of Uncle Vince rowing in with the Bully Boys.