Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:00 pm  

Yet another Euro zone country needs a bail out and those clever EU leaders solution to guarantee the 10 Billion loan is to steal the savers money in Cyprus in a dawn raid. EU democracy working at it's best! How long before the single currency is put out of it's misery?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:42 pm  

Lord Elpers wrote:

Yet another Euro zone country needs a bail out and those clever EU leaders solution to guarantee the 10 Billion loan is to steal the savers money in Cyprus in a dawn raid. EU democracy working at it's best! How long before the single currency is put out of it's misery?

Was it the Euro that created the problem?
Or was it Greece's debt covered-up by fake accounting?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:04 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Was it the Euro that created the problem?
Or was it Greece's debt covered-up by fake accounting?

Can you remind us what the consequences of this were for Goldman Sachs, the company that was responsible, if memory serves, for that false accounting?

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:14 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Can you remind us what the consequences of this were for Goldman Sachs, the company that was responsible, if memory serves, for that false accounting?

Dunno Minty, haven't heard of them for a while.
Any ideas?

[DaveO]

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:45 pm  

El Barbudo wrote: Was it the Euro that created the problem? Or was it Greece's debt covered-up by fake accounting? It's the latter of course but the solution to the Cypriot problem is a disaster. There was a story on Newsnight last night about this featuring Artur Fischer, CEO of the German Stock exchange and Elinor Panaritis a Cypriot economist. His position was the rest of the Eurozone wasn't prepared to simply bail out the Cypriot bank and Cyprus had to contribute. It's all to do with the "well run" northern eu zone countries not being prepared to bail out the "southern slackers" politics of the eurozone. What he seemed to be be missing was any concept that it wasn't Cyrpus's fault that Greece went belly up. He also said while the rest of the euorzone would provide 10bn out of 16bn euros required Cyprus had to find the test and that therefore it must come from the tax payers. Why must it? He didn't explain why it must come from the taxpayers or why for that matter the fact Cyprus was in a mess through no fault of its own meant this either. Elinor Panaritis opposite was impressive and made some very good points including pointing out this is the failure of a bank not a failure of fiscal or government policy and when banks have been facing failure elsewhere they have been bailed out to a far higher degree such as 100bn Euros of guarantees to Dexia bank (Franco-Belgian bank) and of course Northern Rock but at no point where these funded by a raid on depositors money. The German just reiterated Cyprus must contribute and that raising the money in the way it did was a very efficient ( ) way of doing it but perhaps the Cypriot government had not got it right from a social point of view by which he was obviously meaning the less well off were contributing too much. He just didn't seem to get a raid on depositors money could perpetuate a different kind of crisis all on its own. Here is a link to the program at the point the discussion starts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01rg0rz/?t=8m19s well worth watching to get an understanding of the different perspectives from "north" and "south". IMO given the lax policing of the Eurozone was perpetuated by Germany as much as any country they shouldn't be bullying Cyprus like this and should just accept that having to bail two of its banks out is part of the price Germany has to pay for letting things be so lax in the first place.

El Barbudo wrote: Was it the Euro that created the problem? Or was it Greece's debt covered-up by fake accounting? It's the latter of course but the solution to the Cypriot problem is a disaster. There was a story on Newsnight last night about this featuring Artur Fischer, CEO of the German Stock exchange and Elinor Panaritis a Cypriot economist. His position was the rest of the Eurozone wasn't prepared to simply bail out the Cypriot bank and Cyprus had to contribute. It's all to do with the "well run" northern eu zone countries not being prepared to bail out the "southern slackers" politics of the eurozone. What he seemed to be be missing was any concept that it wasn't Cyrpus's fault that Greece went belly up. He also said while the rest of the euorzone would provide 10bn out of 16bn euros required Cyprus had to find the test and that therefore it must come from the tax payers. Why must it? He didn't explain why it must come from the taxpayers or why for that matter the fact Cyprus was in a mess through no fault of its own meant this either. Elinor Panaritis opposite was impressive and made some very good points including pointing out this is the failure of a bank not a failure of fiscal or government policy and when banks have been facing failure elsewhere they have been bailed out to a far higher degree such as 100bn Euros of guarantees to Dexia bank (Franco-Belgian bank) and of course Northern Rock but at no point where these funded by a raid on depositors money. The German just reiterated Cyprus must contribute and that raising the money in the way it did was a very efficient ( ) way of doing it but perhaps the Cypriot government had not got it right from a social point of view by which he was obviously meaning the less well off were contributing too much. He just didn't seem to get a raid on depositors money could perpetuate a different kind of crisis all on its own. Here is a link to the program at the point the discussion starts: http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01rg0rz/?t=8m19s well worth watching to get an understanding of the different perspectives from "north" and "south". IMO given the lax policing of the Eurozone was perpetuated by Germany as much as any country they shouldn't be bullying Cyprus like this and should just accept that having to bail two of its banks out is part of the price Germany has to pay for letting things be so lax in the first place.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:46 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Dunno Minty, haven't heard of them for a while.
Any ideas?

Nothing that I've heard of. I think they got away with their cocked-up cooking of the Greek books – sorry, 'accounting'.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:32 pm  

Mintball wrote: Nothing that I've heard of. I think they got away with their cocked-up cooking of the Greek books – sorry, 'accounting'. Theyr'e still Building Businesses, Strengthening Communities apparently.

Mintball wrote: Nothing that I've heard of. I think they got away with their cocked-up cooking of the Greek books – sorry, 'accounting'. Theyr'e still Building Businesses, Strengthening Communities apparently.

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:42 pm  

Anti-Pickles commentary that I would imagine some on here would agree with: http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comme ... 40645.html

Anti-Pickles commentary that I would imagine some on here would agree with: http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comme ... 40645.html

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:56 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Was it the Euro that created the problem?
Or was it Greece's debt covered-up by fake accounting?

We can debate the original problem if you wish but my point was the Euro crisis has not gone away and will not because the single currency is fundamentally flawed. It has created a north south divide and made most Euro zone countries uncompetitive with Germany. For Germany to impose unrealistic and possibly illegal terms before they will fund the 10 Billion goes against the fundamental idea of the single currency. The Euro is doomed and is only being kept alive by the EU politicians who don't want to admit their mistakes before they retire or are kicked out.

A new political party has been formed in Germany with over 25% support whose aims are to exit from the Euro. They fully support David Camerons ideas to reform the EU too.

The fake accounting was not too important to the EU leaders at the time as they rushed to expand their empire and Germany was too busy negotiating a deal with the Greeks to buy a large number of tanks and submarines which would be funded with the EU grants once their membership was execepted. Cover up.... what cover up!

Re: Euro Crisis Revived With Yet Another EU Buggle : Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:15 am  

Lord Elpers wrote:

... A new political party has been formed in Germany with over 25% support whose aims are to exit from the Euro ....

A new party has been formed, Alternative für Deutschland (FW).

A poll last week for Focus news magazine found 26% were supportive of an anti-euro protest. They came from across the political spectrum.

This does not mean that the new party has 25% support.

Further, the leaders of FW have stated that their aim is not to leave the Euro, but to stop bailouts.