WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:19 am  

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923 "David Cameron said he wanted to see a "commemoration that, like the Diamond Jubilee celebrations, says something about who we are as a people". Paxman told the Radio Times that centenary events should "have almost nothing in common" with the Jubilee." Who's right, Paxo or Dave? Does a war 100 years ago say much about "who we are as a people"? What form should a commemoration take?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923 "David Cameron said he wanted to see a "commemoration that, like the Diamond Jubilee celebrations, says something about who we are as a people". Paxman told the Radio Times that centenary events should "have almost nothing in common" with the Jubilee." Who's right, Paxo or Dave? Does a war 100 years ago say much about "who we are as a people"? What form should a commemoration take?

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:26 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24440923

"David Cameron said he wanted to see a "commemoration that, like the Diamond Jubilee celebrations, says something about who we are as a people".

Paxman told the Radio Times that centenary events should "have almost nothing in common" with the Jubilee."

Who's right, Paxo or Dave?
Does a war 100 years ago say much about "who we are as a people"?
What form should a commemoration take?

While we should never forget, why should we "celebrate like a jubilee" that we sent hundreds of thousands of young men blindly to their deaths. They should show repeats of Blackadder Goes Forth, that would do for me.

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:57 am  

In answer to your question, Paxo's correct.

Commemorations, certainly, but nothing celebratory. and nothing that in any way glamorises war in general and that war in particular.

Exhibitions of work by war artists; readings of the work of the war poets; history etc.

I'd also suggest some films – how about All Quiet on the Western Front? That might not be British – anti-war films don't tend to be made much by victors – but I think it's also important that there is a sense that the loss off life was on both sides (IIRC, Harry Patch considered this vital) and it would be rather good for there to be a general understanding that 20-odd years of colonial adventurism on all sides were the real roots of WWI.

To add: Blackadder Goes Forth would be fine for a lighter take, as it gets very serious at the end. And how about a revival of Oh, What a Lovely War?

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:28 am  

The reason the likes of Cameron want a "celebration" is because he and his backers and chums are doing their level best to turn the clock back to post WW1 Britain. People relying on charity to feed them, hardly any jobs that could sustain a family. All the while, the landed gentry and the nouveau riche get ever richer and more detached from the general population and reality.

Quite apart from what started WW1 and the tragic loss of so many lives, the cost of war reparation and imposed austerity led to the rise of national socialism. Something that is bubbling under the surface of more than a couple of countries at the moment.

Commemorate and reflect, yes; celebrate? Celebrate what exactly?

[Bullseye]

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:30 am  

TBH I don't see anyone saying it should be celebrated.

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:40 am  

Bullseye wrote:

TBH I don't see anyone saying it should be celebrated.

Only obliquely "... like the Diamond Jubilee celebrations, says something about who we are as a people"

I agree with Paxo, it should absolutely nothing like that.
Do we really want to define ourselves by the Great War ... as one of the nations whose imperial ambitions caused us to sacrifice millions of lives?
I'd far rather remember soberly and vow not to get into that situation again.

[Bullseye]

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:49 am  

The Jubilee celebrations apparently said something about who we are as a people according to Cameron. What it said is a matter of opinion. Some went in for it, some didn't. That in itself says something. Although the Jubilee was a celebration (for some at least) it doesn't follow from what Cameron says that the WW1 commemoration should be too, only that they "should say something about who we are as a people" whatever that means.

Commemorations of WW1 in the form of sober remembrance would get my backing as opposed to any sort of celebration. Nothing’s been put forward yet that says what form the commemoration might take has it?

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:56 am  

Bullseye wrote:

...Commemorations of WW1 in the form of sober remembrance would get my backing as opposed to any sort of celebration. Nothing’s been put forward yet that says what form the commemoration might take has it?

Nothing specific other than that bit about "like the Jubilee celebrations" and "who we are as a people".
Which could be no more than just a foot-in-mouth off-the-cuff blunder... I sincerely hope so anyway.

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:14 pm  

If Cameron is to start "celebrating" next year, rather than 2018 I think that says more about his and his party's desperation for office than about our national character. Also, if he wanted us remember the hardships endured by so many British families in WW1 why doesn't he give the £50 million to help the young men blown to pieces, and their families, in ongoing and recent conflicts?

Re: WWI - Paxman v Cameron : Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:14 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Nothing specific other than that bit about "like the Jubilee celebrations" and "who we are as a people".
Which could be no more than just a foot-in-mouth off-the-cuff blunder... I sincerely hope so anyway.

To be fair, looking at the calendar of events, it all looks pretty sober and sensible.

Although it's worth noting that, earlier this year, a report in the Telegraph claimed that "senior government figures" were hoping that the timing of some events next summer would help create a sense of Britishness that would boost the 'no' campaign in the Scottish referendum in September. (Links later, when I'm at a proper computer).

That in itself would be pretty shîtty - if true - although it would possibly make some sense of Cameron's remarks.