Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:32 am  

I'm all in favour of people experiencing and living in new cultures and lands but were do we, if at all, draw a line? Letting people seek asylum from the atrocities of their home country is a must but does it become impractical when you add religion? http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4226/ ... 6E.twitter 1) "The laws in various Islamic states show that they think that Aisha [who was married to Mohammad at the age of six] was under 10 when Mohammed had sex with her. And to Muslims, Mohammed is regarded as the perfect man; it is part of their religion that they should emulate his behavior." 2) "Muslim men are taught in mosques that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority." 3) "The Koran makes a distinction between legal wives and slaves, and instructs Muslim men that they can have sex with either their wives or their slaves." 4) "Not only are Muslim men permitted legally and morally to rape their slaves, but they are also forgiven if they turn a slave girl into a prostitute." 5) "There are also features of Islam which are supremacist and which look with contempt at non-Muslims." 6) "The Hadiths also permit Muslims to rape women who are captured after a battle (whereupon they become the property of Muslims, that is, they become slaves)." The bible has some pretty loved up things but as a society we've grow despite of these things and not because of them and have cherry picked the better ones (apart from equality for all) and religion can be ignored in the majority of our life's. Can and should we do anything? I understand we have laws and they have to be followed, which obviously hasn't been enforced, but that wouldn't stop the initial crime. I'm also aware that our culture has problems with rape, paedophiles and the equality of women but we don't believe God's messenger was practising and advocating them, do we? Is the report something the EDL, Ukip and the daily mail would be proud of writing or do we have a Islamic problem?

I'm all in favour of people experiencing and living in new cultures and lands but were do we, if at all, draw a line? Letting people seek asylum from the atrocities of their home country is a must but does it become impractical when you add religion? http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4226/ ... 6E.twitter 1) "The laws in various Islamic states show that they think that Aisha [who was married to Mohammad at the age of six] was under 10 when Mohammed had sex with her. And to Muslims, Mohammed is regarded as the perfect man; it is part of their religion that they should emulate his behavior." 2) "Muslim men are taught in mosques that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority." 3) "The Koran makes a distinction between legal wives and slaves, and instructs Muslim men that they can have sex with either their wives or their slaves." 4) "Not only are Muslim men permitted legally and morally to rape their slaves, but they are also forgiven if they turn a slave girl into a prostitute." 5) "There are also features of Islam which are supremacist and which look with contempt at non-Muslims." 6) "The Hadiths also permit Muslims to rape women who are captured after a battle (whereupon they become the property of Muslims, that is, they become slaves)." The bible has some pretty loved up things but as a society we've grow despite of these things and not because of them and have cherry picked the better ones (apart from equality for all) and religion can be ignored in the majority of our life's. Can and should we do anything? I understand we have laws and they have to be followed, which obviously hasn't been enforced, but that wouldn't stop the initial crime. I'm also aware that our culture has problems with rape, paedophiles and the equality of women but we don't believe God's messenger was practising and advocating them, do we? Is the report something the EDL, Ukip and the daily mail would be proud of writing or do we have a Islamic problem?

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 6:40 am  

A quick look into the source suggests its further right than Genghis Khan, with a track record of Islamophobia. Perhaps not the best to cite in starting yet another debate on Islam.

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:06 am  

Then why do they let this guy http://www.theguardian.com/profile/irfan-al-alawi Write for them And this one http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/biogr ... Abu+Toameh ?

Then why do they let this guy http://www.theguardian.com/profile/irfan-al-alawi Write for them And this one http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/biogr ... Abu+Toameh ?

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:10 am  

You could of course replace "Muslim" with "Christian" and "Koran" with "Bible" and come up with six equally inflamatory accusations about all flavours of the Christian religion if you wished, more if you concentrate on the Old Testament.

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:14 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

You could of course replace "Muslim" with "Christian" and "Koran" with "Bible" and come up with six equally inflamatory accusations about all flavours of the Christian religion if you wished, more if you concentrate on the Old Testament.

I alluded to that in my post. But that level of hard line religion has left most of our society.

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:39 am  

Sheldon wrote:

I alluded to that in my post. But that level of hard line religion has left most of our society.

As indeed it has in Muslim communities in the UK, of course there are individuals who insist on following every word as law but it is illegal to keep slaves in this country or to rape anyone for any reason whatsoever so your points above are not really relevant to the UK.

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:44 am  

The main incident happened in the UK, the reports about the UK.

At the same time, British judges are increasingly using Islamic Sharia law to justify light sentences for Muslims who rape underage girls:

"As late as May 2013, the media were reporting that a Muslim man in Nottingham who had 'raped' an underage girl, was spared a prison term after the judge heard that the naïve 18-year-old attended an Islamic faith school where he was taught that women are worthless. Rashid told psychologists he had no idea that having sex with a willing 13-year-old was against the law; besides, his education had taught him to believe that 'women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground.'"

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:20 am  

you seem to have an agenda here Sheldon, which isn't like you

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:22 am  

Sheldon wrote:

The main incident happened in the UK, the reports about the UK.

At the same time, British judges are increasingly using Islamic Sharia law to justify light sentences for Muslims who rape underage girls:

"As late as May 2013, the media were reporting that a Muslim man in Nottingham who had 'raped' an underage girl, was spared a prison term after the judge heard that the naïve 18-year-old attended an Islamic faith school where he was taught that women are worthless. Rashid told psychologists he had no idea that having sex with a willing 13-year-old was against the law; besides, his education had taught him to believe that 'women are no more worthy than a lollipop that has been dropped on the ground.'"

A couple of points...

"The Main Incident" is being reported on purely because it went to trial and led to convictions with significant jail sentences, you should need no further proof that sch behavior, even if initiated by religious teachings, is illegal and unacceptable.

The case of the Muslim man in Nottingham was not one of rape and he was not spared a prison sentence after being convicted of rape despite what the national newspapers may have said at the time (and they did report the word "rape"), he was convicted of an unlawful sex offence (as the girl consented), and was given a nine month prison sentence suspended for two years and will be on the sex offenders register for five yeas - all of these things were in accordance with normal sentencing guidelines.

Its far too easy to stir up racial and religious venom by picking a few isolated incidents which only exist in the media BECAUSE of the law and not in spite of it.

Re: Multiculturalism, can we remove religion? : Tue Mar 25, 2014 10:28 am  

Sheldon wrote: I'm all in favour of people experiencing and living in new cultures and lands but were do we, if at all, draw a line? Letting people seek asylum from the atrocities of their home country is a must but does it become impractical when you add religion? http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4226/ ... 6E.twitter 1) "The laws in various Islamic states show that they think that Aisha [who was married to Mohammad at the age of six] was under 10 when Mohammed had sex with her. And to Muslims, Mohammed is regarded as the perfect man; it is part of their religion that they should emulate his behavior." 2) "Muslim men are taught in mosques that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority." 3) "The Koran makes a distinction between legal wives and slaves, and instructs Muslim men that they can have sex with either their wives or their slaves." 4) "Not only are Muslim men permitted legally and morally to rape their slaves, but they are also forgiven if they turn a slave girl into a prostitute." 5) "There are also features of Islam which are supremacist and which look with contempt at non-Muslims." 6) "The Hadiths also permit Muslims to rape women who are captured after a battle (whereupon they become the property of Muslims, that is, they become slaves)." The bible has some pretty loved up things but as a society we've grow despite of these things and not because of them and have cherry picked the better ones (apart from equality for all) and religion can be ignored in the majority of our life's. Can and should we do anything? I understand we have laws and they have to be followed, which obviously hasn't been enforced, but that wouldn't stop the initial crime. I'm also aware that our culture has problems with rape, paedophiles and the equality of women but we don't believe God's messenger was practising and advocating them, do we? Is the report something the EDL, Ukip and the daily mail would be proud of writing or do we have a Islamic problem? Do we have an Islamic problem? Oh Dear. That will get the PC brigade twitching a bit! Thirty years we would have been shocked that anyone would pose such a statement. After all, aren't we here in Britain proud of our slightly old fashioned reputation for honesty, decency, tolerance, the sense of doing the right thing? How could anyone not appreciate, and understand that? A generation later however, after our own Yorkshire born and bred Islamist Terrorists wrecked havoc in London,.....the many Court cases throughout the UK resulting in convictions of Muslin men involved in the targeted grooming and sexual exploitation of underage white girls.....the recent reports of Radical Islamists forcing moderate teachers from their jobs for not promoting a sufficiently hardline Muslim approach....and of course, the disgusting actions of the pair involved in the slaughter of Lee Rigsby, would indicate that we do face such a problem with a section within this community. Anyone who does not recognise that there is an increasingly radical element within the Muslim community is a fool. The handwringers who would brush the problem under the carpet with the glib thoughts of "well, swop the word Koran for Bible, and we're just as bad" is deliberately avoiding the points raised, and attempting to minimise the problems we now face does not help anyone. Perhaps it's ingrained in the British psyche, the reluctance to address anything we find unpleasant, but that outmoded mind set helps no one. Least of all the the thousands of perfectly normal, law abiding Muslims who lead productive lives here in the UK, safe in the knowledge that they can excercise their right to free speech, and follow the religion of choice.

Sheldon wrote: I'm all in favour of people experiencing and living in new cultures and lands but were do we, if at all, draw a line? Letting people seek asylum from the atrocities of their home country is a must but does it become impractical when you add religion? http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4226/ ... 6E.twitter 1) "The laws in various Islamic states show that they think that Aisha [who was married to Mohammad at the age of six] was under 10 when Mohammed had sex with her. And to Muslims, Mohammed is regarded as the perfect man; it is part of their religion that they should emulate his behavior." 2) "Muslim men are taught in mosques that women are second-class citizens, little more than chattels or possessions over whom they have absolute authority." 3) "The Koran makes a distinction between legal wives and slaves, and instructs Muslim men that they can have sex with either their wives or their slaves." 4) "Not only are Muslim men permitted legally and morally to rape their slaves, but they are also forgiven if they turn a slave girl into a prostitute." 5) "There are also features of Islam which are supremacist and which look with contempt at non-Muslims." 6) "The Hadiths also permit Muslims to rape women who are captured after a battle (whereupon they become the property of Muslims, that is, they become slaves)." The bible has some pretty loved up things but as a society we've grow despite of these things and not because of them and have cherry picked the better ones (apart from equality for all) and religion can be ignored in the majority of our life's. Can and should we do anything? I understand we have laws and they have to be followed, which obviously hasn't been enforced, but that wouldn't stop the initial crime. I'm also aware that our culture has problems with rape, paedophiles and the equality of women but we don't believe God's messenger was practising and advocating them, do we? Is the report something the EDL, Ukip and the daily mail would be proud of writing or do we have a Islamic problem? Do we have an Islamic problem? Oh Dear. That will get the PC brigade twitching a bit! Thirty years we would have been shocked that anyone would pose such a statement. After all, aren't we here in Britain proud of our slightly old fashioned reputation for honesty, decency, tolerance, the sense of doing the right thing? How could anyone not appreciate, and understand that? A generation later however, after our own Yorkshire born and bred Islamist Terrorists wrecked havoc in London,.....the many Court cases throughout the UK resulting in convictions of Muslin men involved in the targeted grooming and sexual exploitation of underage white girls.....the recent reports of Radical Islamists forcing moderate teachers from their jobs for not promoting a sufficiently hardline Muslim approach....and of course, the disgusting actions of the pair involved in the slaughter of Lee Rigsby, would indicate that we do face such a problem with a section within this community. Anyone who does not recognise that there is an increasingly radical element within the Muslim community is a fool. The handwringers who would brush the problem under the carpet with the glib thoughts of "well, swop the word Koran for Bible, and we're just as bad" is deliberately avoiding the points raised, and attempting to minimise the problems we now face does not help anyone. Perhaps it's ingrained in the British psyche, the reluctance to address anything we find unpleasant, but that outmoded mind set helps no one. Least of all the the thousands of perfectly normal, law abiding Muslims who lead productive lives here in the UK, safe in the knowledge that they can excercise their right to free speech, and follow the religion of choice.