Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:45 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

Utter rubbish.
There are tests to be passed to determine whether the marriage is a genuine one but there is no ban on citizenship for spouses.

Well quite.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:29 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

...Yet, despite this spread, Israel still says that is willing to negotiate about withdrawing back to the 1967 boundaires ... yeah, right, anyone who actually believes that must be utterly deluded...

Previous bright ideas included little areas where the Palestinians could have limited autonomy over some things, but absolutely no state. Reminiscent of the bantustans of apartheid South Africa.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:30 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

I wouldn't say it's similar but it does have a hint of the same flavour.

For Sudetenland read West Bank, where Israeli settlements (illegal in International law) are springing up like mushrooms.
In Area C of the West Bank, Israelis now outnumber Palestinians by more than two-to-one.
For "settlements" read "invasion", these are not people in covered wagons discovering a "new" land, they are protected by Israeli troops who have no problem in shooting any Palrestinian who demonstrates.
These "settlements" are not just a slight leakage over the border, they are right across the West Bank.
Yet, despite this spread, Israel still says that is willing to negotiate about withdrawing back to the 1967 boundaires ... yeah, right, anyone who actually believes that must be utterly deluded.

Meanwhile, over in Gaza, Gazans are still subjected to Israel's rules about what they can and can't import and export, right down to essentials such as oil for cooking oil and cement to rebuild homes. These could be used for military purposes, according to the Israeli government.

The only conclusion one can draw is that Israel is determined, in the long run, to eliminate Palestine.
And still our governments look away, to their eternal shame.

Nicely put. Western governments are very selective about which countries/people they see fit to 'help'. How, for example, is the situation in Syria different to the one in Libya a few months back? Why is it ok for one dictator to murder his own people, but not another?

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:55 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

Nicely put. Western governments are very selective about which countries/people they see fit to 'help'. How, for example, is the situation in Syria different to the one in Libya a few months back? Why is it ok for one dictator to murder his own people, but not another?

Given the Syrian links to both Hezbollah and Hamas, you would have thought they would have been next on the list for assisted revolution wouldn't you - axis of evil and all that.

Any foreign intervention in Syria however is going to be painted by the government there as "Zionist" and at the direct behest of Israel, which given the history, proximity and disputed borders of the two countries could stir up a whole heap of trouble. The rest of the Arab world wasn't really too fussed - at least not on a political level - by events in Libya. Poking Syria with a stick might produce an entirely different reaction.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:56 pm  

Rock God X wrote: Nicely put. Western governments are very selective about which countries/people they see fit to 'help'. How, for example, is the situation in Syria different to the one in Libya a few months back? Why is it ok for one dictator to murder his own people, but not another? Or to see as friends.

Rock God X wrote: Nicely put. Western governments are very selective about which countries/people they see fit to 'help'. How, for example, is the situation in Syria different to the one in Libya a few months back? Why is it ok for one dictator to murder his own people, but not another? Or to see as friends.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:01 pm  

Mintball wrote: Or to see as friends. Much like the US, the UK is massively in hock to the Saudis in terms of supporting our economy. Not keeping them sweet - even if that means looking the other way when it comes to their human rights record - carries a price no government of any political hue would be prepared to pay.

Mintball wrote: Or to see as friends. Much like the US, the UK is massively in hock to the Saudis in terms of supporting our economy. Not keeping them sweet - even if that means looking the other way when it comes to their human rights record - carries a price no government of any political hue would be prepared to pay.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:03 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Much like the US, the UK is massively in hock to the Saudis in terms of supporting our economy. Not keeping them sweet - even if that means looking the other way when it comes to their human rights record - carries a price no government of any political hue would be prepared to pay.

Yet it doesn't stop any government condemning other, selective nations – as Rock God said – and twaddling on about ethics etc.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:08 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Yet it doesn't stop any government condemning other, selective nations – as Rock God said – and twaddling on about ethics etc.

What do you want, ethical and consistent foreign policy?

The Saudis, Indonesians and even the Afghans all passed Robin Cook's old ethical foreign policy tests, enabling UK firms to export arms to them despite their records of repressing and attacking their own people.

It's one thing having ethics, it's another entirely applying them when there's money to be made unfortunately.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:11 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

What do you want, ethical and consistent foreign policy?

It would be nice. For a change.

Andy Gilder wrote:

The Saudis, Indonesians and even the Afghans all passed Robin Cook's old ethical foreign policy tests, enabling UK firms to export arms to them despite their records of repressing and attacking their own people.

It's one thing having ethics, it's another entirely applying them when there's money to be made unfortunately.

Oh I'm entirely aware of just how far away an ethical foreign policy is. But you know – I dream of world peace too.

Re: All animals are equal... : Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:49 pm  

Don't know why everyone gets so worked up. Leave them to sort their own affairs out and let's look after our own country.

If Israel is as bad as people say they will inevitably have sown the seeds for their own destruction by angered parties. So, let them get on with it - either they will all learn to live in harmony or the position will resolve itself the hard way over time. History suggests the latter.