Re: Ripping off other businesses : Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:49 pm  

Cronus wrote:

I'm certainly not defending this, but it's extremely common in fashion, if not always so blatant or indeed local to source.

A good friend of mine spends much of her working life travelling the UK and the world looking for "influences".

Oh, I'd entirely agree – it's essentially how the fashion world works.

I think the obviousness of this is what makes it stand out.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:02 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Oh, I'd entirely agree – it's essentially how the fashion world works.

I think the obviousness of this is what makes it stand out.

Absolutely, that's less of an 'influence' than daylight robbery. Almost perfect copies.

Good lawyers or not, hard to see how Claire's can get away with it.

That said, my friend has always said it practically impossible to start out as a designer these days for the simple fact the large fashion firms will 'borrow' anything decent and churn out their own versions - with just enough differences to probably be legally sound.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:51 pm  

One huge growth industry is the specialist mega lawyers for mega corporations. Basically and as noted above, the general idea is to sue, sue and sue, and kill your opponent off or bludgeon them into submission - however ludicrous your own case - or force them to back down for fear of humungous legal costs.

Where the battle is relatively less unequal, then the trick is to litigate as a device to harm a competitor's product or their ability to market it.

Good examples are the endless court forays all over the world between Apple and other manufacturers of phones and comms devices, where everything - even the basic oblong shape of a tablet - is either patented or copyrighted or trademarked and thousands of allegations of intellectual rights infringement are made all the time.

When you are up against a multi-million pound lawyer budget, very few can compete, and even if they try to take them on, a heavy lawsuit can take over your life and totally distract you from your business to the point you can't do both.

James Dyson was one such, he eventually succeeded (though regular patent skirmishes continue unabated) but only because he had some very substantial financial backing.

Anheuser-Busch is another example, they have spent millions and decades worldwide trying to kill off or strangle the Budvar brewery which produces a magnificent beer called Budweiser, but A-B want the Budweiser name all to themselves for their risibly-monikered "king of beers".

It's just commercial tactics. Truth and justice don't enter into it.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:12 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

One huge growth industry is the specialist mega lawyers for mega corporations. Basically and as noted above, the general idea is to sue, sue and sue, and kill your opponent off or bludgeon them into submission - however ludicrous your own case - or force them to back down for fear of humungous legal costs.

Where the battle is relatively less unequal, then the trick is to litigate as a device to harm a competitor's product or their ability to market it.

Good examples are the endless court forays all over the world between Apple and other manufacturers of phones and comms devices, where everything - even the basic oblong shape of a tablet - is either patented or copyrighted or trademarked and thousands of allegations of intellectual rights infringement are made all the time.

When you are up against a multi-million pound lawyer budget, very few can compete, and even if they try to take them on, a heavy lawsuit can take over your life and totally distract you from your business to the point you can't do both.

James Dyson was one such, he eventually succeeded (though regular patent skirmishes continue unabated) but only because he had some very substantial financial backing.

Anheuser-Busch is another example, they have spent millions and decades worldwide trying to kill off or strangle the Budvar brewery which produces a magnificent beer called Budweiser, but A-B want the Budweiser name all to themselves for their risibly-monikered "king of beers".

It's just commercial tactics. Truth and justice don't enter into it.

Yup, this is something that needs legislation to stop it. The major electronics firms you mention are now acquiring companies purely for their 'patent portfolio' with the idea that rather than make money by selling to consumers, they will make it through suing other corporations for mega money..

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:21 pm  

In 1972 Audemars Piguet released the Royal Oak. At the same time Bulova released a near identical watch. Now what's debatable is how the Bulova version came to be. Some state that Gerald Genta, the designer of the Royal Oak and many a famous watch, from Patek Philippes Nautilus to IWC's Ingenieur. Designed the watch for Bulova before soon moving onto Audemars Piguet where he again offered up the same design. The fact that the two version's more or less simultaneously hit stores at the same times, only served to muddy the waters further. The other more widely acknowledged version of events, is that Bulova blatantly copied the Royal Oak design, at a time when the Swiss watch industry was on it's knee's due to the so called "quartz crisis". The Royal Oak is after all credited with saving AP from certain closure. Ultimately the Bulova version was only made for a very short time before production was halted, no doubt due to pressure from AP. Suggesting that the latter version of event's turned out to be the truth. But the fact that Genta refused to speak on the matter, ultimately taking whatever he new to the grave with him, has never the less left a rather intriguing story behind. On a side note. There is such a thing known as "homage" watches. Often copying the design of the most sought after pieces. With vintage Panerai being a prime target of this. An original piece coming up for sale on the 12th of May in Mannheim http://www.uhren-muser.de/katalog.html A cheap, widely available knockoff. Yet because it features no name on the dial as per the original, is why Panerai's are perfectly suited to be "homaged". With those responsible totally free from prosecution. I've not mentioned fakes at all, as that's all they are, fakes! Where as the above blur the lines to some degree.

In 1972 Audemars Piguet released the Royal Oak. At the same time Bulova released a near identical watch. Now what's debatable is how the Bulova version came to be. Some state that Gerald Genta, the designer of the Royal Oak and many a famous watch, from Patek Philippes Nautilus to IWC's Ingenieur. Designed the watch for Bulova before soon moving onto Audemars Piguet where he again offered up the same design. The fact that the two version's more or less simultaneously hit stores at the same times, only served to muddy the waters further. The other more widely acknowledged version of events, is that Bulova blatantly copied the Royal Oak design, at a time when the Swiss watch industry was on it's knee's due to the so called "quartz crisis". The Royal Oak is after all credited with saving AP from certain closure. Ultimately the Bulova version was only made for a very short time before production was halted, no doubt due to pressure from AP. Suggesting that the latter version of event's turned out to be the truth. But the fact that Genta refused to speak on the matter, ultimately taking whatever he new to the grave with him, has never the less left a rather intriguing story behind. On a side note. There is such a thing known as "homage" watches. Often copying the design of the most sought after pieces. With vintage Panerai being a prime target of this. An original piece coming up for sale on the 12th of May in Mannheim http://www.uhren-muser.de/katalog.html A cheap, widely available knockoff. Yet because it features no name on the dial as per the original, is why Panerai's are perfectly suited to be "homaged". With those responsible totally free from prosecution. I've not mentioned fakes at all, as that's all they are, fakes! Where as the above blur the lines to some degree.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:06 am  

Wnidyone2012 wrote:

Do people buy that crap??

You beat me to it, what a load of rubbish people buy.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Fri Feb 24, 2012 7:41 am  

Seems like Claires' way of handling this is to ignore / ban anyone with the audacity to complain about it http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/02/2 ... ellery-and

Seems like Claires' way of handling this is to ignore / ban anyone with the audacity to complain about it http://www.thedrum.co.uk/news/2012/02/2 ... ellery-and

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:27 am  

I thought fashion had nothing to do with what stuff looked like but what label was on it? As long as it says Stella McCartney somewhere you could be dangling a turd around your neck.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:59 pm  

DHM wrote:

I thought fashion had nothing to do with what stuff looked like but what label was on it? As long as it says Stella McCartney somewhere you could be dangling a turd around your neck.

It's not a turd, it's a vintage, pre-used food item.

Re: Ripping off other businesses : Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:07 pm  

DHM wrote: I thought fashion had nothing to do with what stuff looked like but what label was on it? As long as it says Stella McCartney somewhere you could be dangling a turd around your neck. Poppycock. You obviously haven't seen this. Bet you feel daft for disparaging the fashion industry now, eh?

DHM wrote: I thought fashion had nothing to do with what stuff looked like but what label was on it? As long as it says Stella McCartney somewhere you could be dangling a turd around your neck. Poppycock. You obviously haven't seen this. Bet you feel daft for disparaging the fashion industry now, eh?