Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:09 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

News that at the last minute, a New York City judge has blocked a new law a day before the law was to take effect.
The law would forbid the sale of drinks larger than 16 ounces (473ml) in food-service establishments.
The rather pompous Mayor Michael Bloomberg has whinged that they judge got it all wrong, and is going to appeal, saying he's on some mission to "save lives" and this will do it.

I am not in favour of people consuming huge portions of anything and becoming dangerouslay fat, but this is no place for the law. But I think we are going the same way in this country too, with health police impinging ever more widely, smokers being treated like lepers when seeking treatment, drinkers being the next target with all this Units nonsense.

I fear though it's only a matter of time. Eventually, every aspect of your life really will be micromanaged, Orwell was right, and 1984 is well on the way.

One could argue that legislation is the only viable option when health lobbies try and take on corporations that spend billions in product placement, advertising and political lobbying while knowing that the huge amounts of corn syrup fructose they put in their drinks is killing people.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:10 am  

DHM wrote:

One could argue that legislation is the only viable option when health lobbies try and take on corporations that spend billions in product placement, advertising and political lobbying while knowing that the huge amounts of corn syrup fructose they put in their drinks is killing people.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:38 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

...with health police impinging ever more widely, smokers being treated like lepers when seeking treatment, drinkers being the next target with all this Units nonsense...

"all this units nonsense"?
I can appreciate that no-one knows whether 21 units is the correct boundary ... but it's a fact that as alcohol consumption has increased, so has cirrhosisof the liver.
People used to die in their fifties and sixties of it, now we are increasingly seeing people dying of it in their thirties.
I think we need another thread for this topic.

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

...I fear though it's only a matter of time. Eventually, every aspect of your life really will be micromanaged, Orwell was right, and 1984 is well on the way.

Give over.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:47 pm  

DHM wrote:

One could argue that legislation is the only viable option when health lobbies try and take on corporations that spend billions in product placement, advertising and political lobbying while knowing that the huge amounts of corn syrup fructose they put in their drinks is killing people.

If it is, then legislate to ban the use of corn syrup fructose.

Or legislate to put tobacco-style warnings on all products containing it.

Do something that might actually work.

What is the point of banning the sale of greater than 16oz drinks? What if I get one, then am still thirsty, so get another? Or two? It is futile and pointless, as well as likely to make no difference at all to obesity health issues, as well as ridiculous since hardly every purchaser is obese, and no purchaser is obese because they buy big drinks at takeaways. It is ridiculous because if you were really wanting to have an anti-obesity effect then you should restrict the entire calorie content any individual is allowed to buy. What is healthier, a large Coke, or a small diet coke with a double big-Mac meal, extra fries, extra onion rings and a McFlurry or two? You simply can't micromanage these things, it's silly, it is an unwarranted intrusion which does nothing to achieve its stated aims, but makes an ass of the law.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:59 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

"all this units nonsense"?
I can appreciate that no-one knows whether 21 units is the correct boundary ... but it's a fact that as alcohol consumption has increased, so has cirrhosisof the liver.
People used to die in their fifties and sixties of it, now we are increasingly seeing people dying of it in their thirties.
I think we need another thread for this topic.

I'll drink to that, and so will only comment that I seriously doubt that any person who died of cirrhosis of the liver recently did so without having known that the government recommends 3 or 4 units or whatever limits

Also alcohol misuse is not the only cause of the condition and I don't know of any evidence proving the link you make although would accept that especially the young who want to drink alcohol at alarming rates and in huge quantities are clearly at great risk of doing themselves long term harm. Every single one of them knows all about units, and it's printed on every bottle they buy, but it doesn't modify their behaviour.

Oh and btw it is nonsense, given that we learned a year or two back that in actual fact, the unit limits were pulled out of a hat, on the basis of no evidence at all, by government health experts that were put on the spot and asked to come up with a figure. It could have been any figure.

El Barbudo wrote:

Give over.

Says the man whose phone calls are all on tape in America, whose every outdoor movement is logged by mobile providers and tracked by CCTV, whose every purchase from supermarkets can be logged tracked and purchases targeted, who even while browsing this site has his postings continually monitored and ads flashing up depending on context.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:11 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If it is, then legislate to ban the use of corn syrup fructose.

Or legislate to put tobacco-style warnings on all products containing it.

Do something that might actually work.

What is the point of banning the sale of greater than 16oz drinks? What if I get one, then am still thirsty, so get another? Or two? It is futile and pointless, as well as likely to make no difference at all to obesity health issues, as well as ridiculous since hardly every purchaser is obese, and no purchaser is obese because they buy big drinks at takeaways. It is ridiculous because if you were really wanting to have an anti-obesity effect then you should restrict the entire calorie content any individual is allowed to buy. What is healthier, a large Coke, or a small diet coke with a double big-Mac meal, extra fries, extra onion rings and a McFlurry or two? You simply can't micromanage these things, it's silly, it is an unwarranted intrusion which does nothing to achieve its stated aims, but makes an ass of the law.

I'm not easy with governments banning anything really. Think the point in this case is that, even by doing something as seemingly pointless as this, they are making a statement and perhaps starting the ball rolling so that they can introduce more stringent warnings over a period of time.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:35 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If it is, then legislate to ban the use of corn syrup fructose.

Or legislate to put tobacco-style warnings on all products containing it.

Do something that might actually work.

What is the point of banning the sale of greater than 16oz drinks? What if I get one, then am still thirsty, so get another? Or two? It is futile and pointless, as well as likely to make no difference at all to obesity health issues, as well as ridiculous since hardly every purchaser is obese, and no purchaser is obese because they buy big drinks at takeaways. It is ridiculous because if you were really wanting to have an anti-obesity effect then you should restrict the entire calorie content any individual is allowed to buy. What is healthier, a large Coke, or a small diet coke with a double big-Mac meal, extra fries, extra onion rings and a McFlurry or two? You simply can't micromanage these things, it's silly, it is an unwarranted intrusion which does nothing to achieve its stated aims, but makes an ass of the law.

Your original post was a tirade against legislation in general, you included tobacco and alcohol, and used the reference to 1984. So why would you suggest legislating against corn syrup?

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 5:48 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

...Says the man whose phone calls are all on tape in America, whose every outdoor movement is logged by mobile providers and tracked by CCTV, whose every purchase from supermarkets can be logged tracked and purchases targeted, who even while browsing this site has his postings continually monitored and ads flashing up depending on context.

This all about survelliance, true it chimes with 1984 but it has nothing to do with the topic.

Now, if all of this was linked-up, we should be worried.
Mind you, I'm probably listed as a dissident already, what with the opinions I post on here, plus my magazine subsrciptions ... well dodgy, I am.

But again, worth a topic on its own.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:06 pm  

DHM wrote:

Your original post was a tirade against legislation in general, you included tobacco and alcohol, and used the reference to 1984. So why would you suggest legislating against corn syrup?

I would distinguish between legislation in general and legislation in particular.

There are laws already regarding alcohol and most of them I don't have a problem with.

However on this type of issue the approach should IMHO be education, and if people are properly informed then it's their choice. It is not specifically a quart of cola, but the point that there is no reason to pick on that, if you're not going to make "portion" rules about each and every product for consumption, and I'm against that as unfeasible, a complete infringement of liberty, and a number of other things.

If corn syrup does kill people then yes, of course, legislate against it. Except that I don't believe it does. I would accept that in some cases the over-consumption of it along with the entirety of that particular individual's diet will contribute to obesity and that may or may not lead to health issues.

Certainly if I visit the States and fancy a large Coke, whether I can legally be served it is a total irrelevance to my wellbeing or otherwise. So the law would apply to me, but would be utterly pointless. I really don't see how that sort of micromanagement would have any effect. As there's nothing to stop me buying two smaller drinks.

There's any number of other reasons too. Just for one more example, IF someone's over-consumption of sugary drinks is actually so bad that it is causing them harm them I'd bet the vast majority of the sugary drinks they are consuming would be at 50c for 3 liters from the corner store, not $4 at Maccy D's.

Re: Sugary drinks ban : Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:11 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

This all about survelliance, true it chimes with 1984 but it has nothing to do with the topic.

Er, i was replying to you. If you feel your post was 'nothing to do with the topic' then I suggest you send yourself a stiff complaint.

El Barbudo wrote:

Now, if all of this was linked-up, we should be worried.

Well it kind of is, the issue is the desire to control and micro-manage every aspect of existence from cradle to grave so there's a clear connection.

El Barbudo wrote:

Mind you, I'm probably listed as a dissident already, what with the opinions I post on here, plus my magazine subsrciptions ... well dodgy, I am..

I know, your file reference is 29746029773BYZRR89298743AQTR9433.02876531/THX7 and you are due to be terminated in 15 seconds