Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 12:54 pm  

WIZEB wrote: He wasn't interested in that cr@p. He was too busy writing himself into history fighting his Christian crusades. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/02/tony-blair-there-is-a-problem-within-islam_n_3373971.html?utm_hp_ref=uk He's correct. You cannot ignore reality. You must face the world as it is not as you think it ought to be. The fact is there is alot of Muslim fanaticism. That will not go away by appeasement. Ultimately, it will either have to be crushed or crush our way of life. Bush and Blair were always right on this.

WIZEB wrote: He wasn't interested in that cr@p. He was too busy writing himself into history fighting his Christian crusades. http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/06/02/tony-blair-there-is-a-problem-within-islam_n_3373971.html?utm_hp_ref=uk He's correct. You cannot ignore reality. You must face the world as it is not as you think it ought to be. The fact is there is alot of Muslim fanaticism. That will not go away by appeasement. Ultimately, it will either have to be crushed or crush our way of life. Bush and Blair were always right on this.

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:09 pm  

Dally wrote:

Leaving aside people's objection on principle to hereditary peers, I am struggling to see how the current situation or paying members of the upper house or electing them would improve on what went before. In fact, aren't people of independent means, no axes to grind, and with long British family histories much better placed to look after the interests of our nation?

Does "independent means" equate to not being greedy? No.
Does "independent means" equate to best person for the job? No.
Does "independent means" exclude good people from the job? Very probably.

"No axes to grind"? ... yeah, right .... except for the major one of protecting the status quo in terms of their status and wealth.

"Long British family histories"? ... You can curtsey to the peerage if you wish but I don't score people higher just because their great great great great granny shagged the king or because they belong to a privileged remote elite or according to how long their families have owned stolen land.

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:15 pm  

Dally wrote:

He's correct. You cannot ignore reality. You must face the world as it is not as you think it ought to be. The fact is there is alot of Muslim fanaticism. That will not go away by appeasement. Ultimately, it will either have to be crushed or crush our way of life. Bush and Blair were always right on this.

Ah, Bush, that well-known non-religious non-fanatic.
The truth is that it's you Abrahamic god-botherers who get us into these crises.
Having a God is no substitute for having a conscience.

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:21 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Ah, Bush, that well-known non-religious non-fanatic.
The truth is that it's you Abrahamic god-botherers who get us into these crises.
Having a God is no substitute for having a conscience.

"You"?

Anyway, what is this conscience of which you speak? Does it entail letting people wanting to detroy your nation just go ahead?

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:23 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Does "independent means" equate to not being greedy? No.
Does "independent means" equate to best person for the job? No.
Does "independent means" exclude good people from the job? Very probably.

"No axes to grind"? ... yeah, right .... except for the major one of protecting the status quo in terms of their status and wealth.

"Long British family histories"? ... You can curtsey to the peerage if you wish but I don't score people higher just because their great great great great granny shagged the king or because they belong to a privileged remote elite or according to how long their families have owned stolen land.

So, back to the question - is the removal of hereditary peers likely to improve the functioning of the Lords and oour democracy or not?

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:01 pm  

Dally wrote:

"You"?..

Sorry if I insulted you by assuming you were a Christian.

Dally wrote:

Anyway, what is this conscience of which you speak?

Spoken like a Christian puzzled by the notion.

Dally wrote:

Does it entail letting people wanting to detroy your nation just go ahead?

The nation includes Muslims, the overwhelming majority of whom have no terrorist intent.

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:03 pm  

Dally wrote:

So, back to the question - is the removal of hereditary peers likely to improve the functioning of the Lords and oour democracy or not?

Hereditary seats are, by definition, undemocratic.
Please engage brain before asking further questions.

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:11 pm  

Dally wrote:

He's correct. You cannot ignore reality. You must face the world as it is not as you think it ought to be. The fact is there is alot of Muslim fanaticism. That will not go away by appeasement. Ultimately, it will either have to be crushed or crush our way of life. Bush and Blair were always right on this.

How do you propose to crush this Islamic fanaticism then ?

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:51 pm  

Dead Man Walking wrote:

How do you propose to crush this Islamic fanaticism then ?

What about a nice old fashioned crusade?

Re: The Blair legacy : Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:58 pm  

Him wrote:

Yep.
I'd increase the MP's salary from £65k to £100k
Cut the number of Lords from 760 to 350
Give the Lords a salary of £70k
Then stipulate an MP or Lord cannot have an income from any other source, and their and their spouse's bank accounts are open to monitoring by a Parliamentary body.
It probably would cost us more, but combined with elected Lords I think it'd be worth it.
The increase in MP's salary would cost a maximum of £22m, in reality it would be less since Ministers and Committee Chairs receive higher wages anyway
350 Lords @ £70k = £24.5m but Lords currently receive a daily allowance of £300 per day which probably costs around £10m currently.

If you did this I am afraid it would only serve to drive the likes of Cameron, Osbourne, Maude etc out of politics altogether.

................ oh, wait a minute