Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:45 am  

Saddened! wrote:

Got to have somewhere to store the thousands of innocent people they mistakenly take to be terrorists from their snooping activities.

What a petulant little comment, just because you got your backside handed to you - and can't actually come up with something even halfway coherent to say on that thread, so have dropped out there.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:30 am  

America - control violence by giving more people guns, that way everyone can 'defend themselves'

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:34 am  

Syria has one of the most advanced air-ground defence systems outside of the western world. If you try and enforce a no fly zone you are going to lose aircrew.

The biggest Russian military base outside of Russia is in...you guessed it...Syria.

As a result of the above I see great difficulty, and no political will, in putting boots on the ground or air assets above.

I am still not sure why everyone is so fussed about drone strikes. I really don't see the difference between a ship / plane launching a missile that blows up a target 200 miles away (little / no risk to operator) and an unmanned drone being piloted from Nevada or RAF Waddington.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:56 am  

The Video Ref wrote:

Syria has one of the most advanced air-ground defence systems outside of the western world. If you try and enforce a no fly zone you are going to lose aircrew.

The biggest Russian military base outside of Russia is in...you guessed it...Syria.

As a result of the above I see great difficulty, and no political will, in putting boots on the ground or air assets above.

I am still not sure why everyone is so fussed about drone strikes. I really don't see the difference between a ship / plane launching a missile that blows up a target 200 miles away (little / no risk to operator) and an unmanned drone being piloted from Nevada or RAF Waddington.

I think it's an ethical question.

In 'traditional' warfare, both sides risk as much, which could at least be hoped to make leaders think twice about committing troops etc to die. When it becomes this sort of warfare, you entirely lose that sort of equality (for want of a better phrase) and, with it comes a belief that it's rather easier to commit to killing 'others' than were your own people also at risk.

On the wider issue of Syria: giving arms to supporters of al_Queda?

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:12 am  

Obama is now in his second term and has done nothing to change Israel's expansionist lebensraum policies and actions as they continue to slice-off more and more of the West Bank and continue to strangle Gaza.
I appreciate that he faces Republican opposition at home and he stands to lose a section of the voting public if he toughens-up against Netanyahu's apparently god-approved right to steal from, evict, kill and disenfranchise Palestinians ... but this is his second term, it's time to grow some cojones I reckon.

Not only are Israels actions contrary to UN rulings, they are the very core of what extreme Islamic groups are retaliating against.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:28 am  

Mintball wrote:

On the wider issue of Syria: giving arms to supporters of al_Queda?

Agreed.

I think it's an ethical question.

In 'traditional' warfare, both sides risk as much, which could at least be hoped to make leaders think twice about committing troops etc to die. When it becomes this sort of warfare, you entirely lose that sort of equality (for want of a better phrase) and, with it comes a belief that it's rather easier to commit to killing 'others' than were your own people also at risk.

The best way to do war, throughout the ages, has been to attack with minimal possible risk to your own side.

Drones are just a natural evolution of this. And, I don't really understand the 'ethics' of a fair fight when it is a life or death situation.

Why risk 30/40/50 men when you can hit something from a platform that sits many thousand feet in the air and is virtually undetectable to those who you are setting out to target.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:43 am  

Him wrote:

Anybody on the Left should bloody well support him or you'll let the maniacal, looneys of the US Right in to power.

To dismiss the healthcare reforms he managed to get through is to fundamentally misunderstand US politics.

As for Syria, what do you think the US should do?
There's only a few options -
1. Do nothing
2. Sanctions
3. No fly zone
4. Arm certain rebel groups
5. Air bombardment
6. Invasion

Which one is best?

I think we should stay the hell out of it! It's a battle between a secular dictator who has the support of all the minorities and the Sunni majority who mainly appear to be Islamic fundamentalists.

We should leave it to the U.N as Minty says.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 12:03 pm  

LeighGionaire wrote:

We should leave it to the U.N as Minty says.

We've been here before.
If the US wants to get involved, they'll get involved, regardless of the UN.
I would imagine under the last administration, Dubya/Dick/Condy, then they may well have contrived to have been involved long before now.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 2:03 pm  

But also the UN isn't going to get involved without the US. The US is the only nation with the capability to get involved.

And staying the hell out of it isn't necessarily a good option, as I said see Rwanda. Inaction can have just as wide consequences as action.
As I said there are no passive options, the option to stay the hell out of it is also the option that says we don't care what happens there.

I'm not saying the US response of arming rebels is the best one, I think they've been emboldened by Libya where arming and supporting the rebels worked. But all I'm saying is that every option has consequences, including choosing not to act, especially if chemical weapons are being used in what seems to descending into sectarian violence.

Re: President Obama - What A Fraud He Turned Out To Be! : Sat Jun 15, 2013 4:18 pm  

Aside from an unexpectedly harsh stance on human rights Obama's turned out to be pretty much what was initially advertised - a centre-right conservative pro-Wall Street President relying heavily on the same advisers and infrastructure which served the Clinton administration.

I suspect he would have preferred to institute a greater number of positive social reforms during his presidency but given the terminal nature of the US economy (which has needed all his attention just to maintain life-support) he was always behind the eight-ball.

I'm less concerned by Obama's (admittedly reprehensible) activities than the perfect sh!tstorm which will break upon us when the economy ultimately implodes and the GOP realises the quickest route to power is to go further to the right of the last Republican president.

The US has been on the knife-edge of fascism for some time now. Perhaps Obama's overarching legacy will be in holding on for so long.