Re: Pub Companies : Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:06 am  

You'll excuse me if I don't shed a tear for Punch, they took several great brands from Allied Domecq , mixed them in with a bunch of pubs that were being flogged off cheap by the big boys cause they didn't make money, completely changed the beers available in those pubs, employed managers who didn't have a clue but were cheap and expected to make money.

They stopped Firkin's from brewing their own beers and replaced them with Worthington and London Pride, 18 months later there wasn't one Frikin pub left.

Re: Pub Companies : Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:07 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Not when a few months later its a Tesco Express (The Queens, Burley Rd) and many other examples.

I'm not defending Enterprise Inns and I loathe Tesco ... but in a case where Enterprise couldn't make it pay as a pub, or needed to sell to get the the liquidity from the sale to prop up the business, isn't it just a question of who offered the best price for the premises, in this case Tesco?

I am by no means certain but it seems to me that, in addition to the activities of the more rapacious Pubcos (not all of them, as some seem quite successful and popular e.g. Nicholsons and Weatherspoons), supermarkets in general are undercutting pubs to such an extent that more people are now choosing to consume their alcohol at home, thereby reducing the spend in pubs overall such that the less-well-run or less popular pubs go by the wayside.

A round of two drinks at my local costs well over six quid and, if La Senora wants her usual higher-priced, supposedly "premium", stuff with a foreign name, probably over 7 quid ... I have bloody good wine at home (granted, not from a supermarket ) that costs less per bottle than two rounds in the pub.
The biggest pull towards the pub rather than home consumption is, for me, decent draught beer... and I don't think I'm alone in that choice ... it's quite ironic that cask (real) beer sales are actually rising, that's one in the eye for Carlsberg, eh?

Re: Pub Companies : Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:23 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I'm not defending Enterprise Inns and I loathe Tesco ... but in a case where Enterprise couldn't make it pay as a pub, or needed to sell to get the the liquidity from the sale to prop up the business, isn't it just a question of who offered the best price for the premises, in this case Tesco?

There is a perfect storm rising of a large stock of available loss-making pub premises which in the main tend to be located in communities rather than city centres, and a requirement for medium sized business premises located in communities for the current surge in supermarket "Local" style stores - throw in the fact that the pub business may have failed under several tenants/managers/franchisees and you can understand why there isn't a queue of licensees interested but several supermarkets instead.

Mulhollands campaign group argues that many of the failing pubs are failing because of the PubCo model and they list lots of reasons in evidence, even Vince Cable in the Commons last night admitted that the business model had been hijacked by spivs and conmen in the same manner as the retail banks had been prior to the '97 crash, the shame is that the licensees are the only victims.

Re: Pub Companies : Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:35 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

There is a perfect storm rising of a large stock of available loss-making pub premises.

Many of these were only loss making because of the sky high rents and wholesale prices inflicted by the Pub Co's.

Re: Pub Companies : Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:59 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

Many of these were only loss making because of the sky high rents and wholesale prices inflicted by the Pub Co's.

Yep, precisely the point made in the Commons last night, I hope he puts his speech on his web site or maybe if he did that they'd nab him outside of parliamentary privilege as he did name a few names and quote some rather large bonuses and dividend payments.

Re: Pub Companies : Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:48 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

The biggest pull towards the pub rather than home consumption is, for me, decent draught beer... and I don't think I'm alone in that choice ... it's quite ironic that cask (real) beer sales are actually rising, that's one in the eye for Carlsberg, eh?

The market for craft beers has grown massively. Locally, the Leeds Brewery and Saltaire Brewery in particular seem to be growing and nationally, Brew Dog is perhaps the most notable success story. Brooklyn Brewery has recently opened a pop-up bar in Leeds.

I was at the Leeds Beer Festival a few months ago and what struck me is that the crowd there wasn't your typical "old men with beards" crowd, it was incredibly varied.

It's quite nice to see that people have realised that there is more to the tasteless nitro-keg swill that comes with a Fosters or Carling label on it.

Re: Pub Companies : Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:07 am  

There was a cracking ale festival on in Manchester over Grand Final weekend. There were a handful of other RL fans there, but certainly an awful lot missing out.

Cleverly disguised picture attached:

Re: Pub Companies : Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:37 am  

JerryChicken wrote: Yep, precisely the point made in the Commons last night, I hope he puts his speech on his web site or maybe if he did that they'd nab him outside of parliamentary privilege as he did name a few names and quote some rather large bonuses and dividend payments. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 1431000002

JerryChicken wrote: Yep, precisely the point made in the Commons last night, I hope he puts his speech on his web site or maybe if he did that they'd nab him outside of parliamentary privilege as he did name a few names and quote some rather large bonuses and dividend payments. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 1431000002

Re: Pub Companies : Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:30 pm  

EHW wrote:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm131014/debtext/131014-0004.htm#13101431000002

Wow.
Pretty scathing.

Re: Pub Companies : Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:02 pm  

EHW wrote:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201314/cmhansrd/cm131014/debtext/131014-0004.htm#13101431000002

His tweets the next morning to the Labour Member for Burton on Trent who is on various trade committees for the major brewers and who got up and walked out during Mulhollands 20 minute speech were quite funny.