Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:21 am  

sally cinnamon wrote: <snip> I'm still uncertain whether you are on one of your usual trolling/flaming exercises, if so, it's in particularly poor taste, even for your levels. But here's a guide to foodbanks (pdf),please read it and then come back with more supply/demand bollox. Camoron has made great noise about the growth of foodbanks under Labour being higher than since 2010. Not too difficult a point to prove when you consider that the first foodbank opened in 1999, so the growth under Labour could be described as exponential if you take a zero base

sally cinnamon wrote: <snip> I'm still uncertain whether you are on one of your usual trolling/flaming exercises, if so, it's in particularly poor taste, even for your levels. But here's a guide to foodbanks (pdf),please read it and then come back with more supply/demand bollox. Camoron has made great noise about the growth of foodbanks under Labour being higher than since 2010. Not too difficult a point to prove when you consider that the first foodbank opened in 1999, so the growth under Labour could be described as exponential if you take a zero base

[DaveO]

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:50 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

Thats not quite what I mean - I was referring to unmet demand, ie where there is a demand but the supply isn't there to meet it or its too expensive so some people can't afford it. In the healthcare example, the free supply would increase uptake not because people thought "oh, may as well go to the doctors because its free" but because before people that were ill couldn't afford it anyway, so they were just doing without healthcare.

That is what I said but with the important caveat that they actually needed the health care. You are arguing people who don't need food banks will do so just because there is a supply of free food.

It's plausible that its the same situation with foodbanks. The figures being talked about here are the rise in uptake of food banks in the last two years, but we aren't told if there's been an increase in supply or not. It could easily have been the case that two years ago (remember this was already 3 years in to a major economic downturn) there were far more low income families that would have benefited from food banks than could be met by the food bank supply at the time. So obviously when you increase the supply you get more uptake.

If you are now arguing there are more people in need of food charity than could be met by the previous number of available food banks but now these demands can be met due to more food banks, that isn't the same thing as what was being suggested is it?

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:50 pm  

sally cinnamon wrote:

...The figures being talked about here are the rise in uptake of food banks in the last two years, but we aren't told if there's been an increase in supply or not. It could easily have been the case that two years ago (remember this was already 3 years in to a major economic downturn) there were far more low income families that would have benefited from food banks than could be met by the food bank supply at the time...

Yes, I think that's the straw to which he is clinging to try and say it's not the benefit cuts that have driven the demand.
He seems to have missed the point that, if people were already poor enough to need food banks (but weren't getting them) then cutting their benefits was still a callous act.

Basically, he's a mealy-mouthed dissembling 2@.

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:10 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

Yes, I think that's the straw to which he is clinging to try and say it's not the benefit cuts that have driven the demand.
He seems to have missed the point that, if people were already poor enough to need food banks (but weren't getting them) then cutting their benefits was still a callous act.

Basically, he's a mealy-mouthed dissembling 2@.

When we get politicians, who are so far detached from reality that they think nothing of making statements similar to Freud's, it is obvious that they really are not serving the nation.

I propose a return of The Golden Shot and the public can phone-in (on a premium rate line obviously) to guide "Bernie the Bolt" and he can cull the offender live on TV

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:27 pm  

The daughter and I donated some food last week. It's hard for her to understand that some people dont eat like we can and I tell her she is very lucky

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:04 am  

It would appear that Lord Freud has a counterpart across the pond. Homeless shelter volunteers are the real cause of homelessness The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter. The caring face of capitalism eh?

It would appear that Lord Freud has a counterpart across the pond. Homeless shelter volunteers are the real cause of homelessness The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter. The caring face of capitalism eh?

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:03 am  

cod'ead wrote: It would appear that Lord Freud has a counterpart across the pond. Homeless shelter volunteers are the real cause of homelessness The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter. The caring face of capitalism eh? Its fairly obvious that the bloke is mentally ill to the point of being delusional - I take my hat off to his son for his stance - why does that happen so often that the offspring feel a guilt for the self-interest money grabbing attitude of their "successful" parents, could it be that the younger generation experience more of real life in their school years than their delusional parents ever do ? There's also a problem with the way that "successful" billionaires like him are reported with phrases like "billion dollar investment company" being used to put the owners of such businesses on a pedestal and an object to aspire to - whereas in reality we all know what happened to most of those billion dollar investment companies when the merry-go-round stopped working in 2007 and most of them were shown to be not just a smoke and mirror act but actually just made of smoke, one puff of wind and they were gone. We currently have someone in this region, who was previously a customer of mine, who has built a business empire on property investment, been awarded various business "xxx of the year" type awards and held up as an example of someone to whom we should all aspire to in a TV's "Apprentice" sort of way - in a stupid decision a few years ago she decided to take on the local council in a high court action which she was advised at the time was unwinnable - she lost and the council successfully applied for a £2million interim legal cost payment against their estimated bill of £4mill, the highly prized, highly lauded property investment empire is now in the hands of administrators who are warning that no creditors will be paid - THATS the reality of what happens when the rug is pulled and multi-millionaires find that their reported fortunes were simply numbers on a sheet of paper with no relevance to the real world at all. This Wiki article MAY be written by her former PR people, or HELLO! magazine This report shows falling values but still substantial "assets" This report shows the reality of building empires on sand

cod'ead wrote: It would appear that Lord Freud has a counterpart across the pond. Homeless shelter volunteers are the real cause of homelessness The founder of multi-billion dollar Velocity Capital Management even derides his own son for volunteering at a shelter. The caring face of capitalism eh? Its fairly obvious that the bloke is mentally ill to the point of being delusional - I take my hat off to his son for his stance - why does that happen so often that the offspring feel a guilt for the self-interest money grabbing attitude of their "successful" parents, could it be that the younger generation experience more of real life in their school years than their delusional parents ever do ? There's also a problem with the way that "successful" billionaires like him are reported with phrases like "billion dollar investment company" being used to put the owners of such businesses on a pedestal and an object to aspire to - whereas in reality we all know what happened to most of those billion dollar investment companies when the merry-go-round stopped working in 2007 and most of them were shown to be not just a smoke and mirror act but actually just made of smoke, one puff of wind and they were gone. We currently have someone in this region, who was previously a customer of mine, who has built a business empire on property investment, been awarded various business "xxx of the year" type awards and held up as an example of someone to whom we should all aspire to in a TV's "Apprentice" sort of way - in a stupid decision a few years ago she decided to take on the local council in a high court action which she was advised at the time was unwinnable - she lost and the council successfully applied for a £2million interim legal cost payment against their estimated bill of £4mill, the highly prized, highly lauded property investment empire is now in the hands of administrators who are warning that no creditors will be paid - THATS the reality of what happens when the rug is pulled and multi-millionaires find that their reported fortunes were simply numbers on a sheet of paper with no relevance to the real world at all. This Wiki article MAY be written by her former PR people, or HELLO! magazine This report shows falling values but still substantial "assets" This report shows the reality of building empires on sand

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:58 pm  

Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial. http://www.unemployednet.org/food-banks ... nefit-cuts

Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial. http://www.unemployednet.org/food-banks ... nefit-cuts

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:08 pm  

Hull White Star wrote: Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial. http://www.unemployednet.org/food-banks ... nefit-cuts Osborne has never been to one and in reality probably doesn't care anyway http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/11/osborne-food-bank_n_3578565.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Hull White Star wrote: Tories arguing against all the proof and from the people who know best??? Lord Fraud would do well reading this article and taking it in rather than being in denial. http://www.unemployednet.org/food-banks ... nefit-cuts Osborne has never been to one and in reality probably doesn't care anyway http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/11/osborne-food-bank_n_3578565.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Re: No link between food banks and poverty : Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:38 pm  

JerryChicken wrote: Osborne has never been to one and in reality probably doesn't care anyway http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/11/osborne-food-bank_n_3578565.html?utm_hp_ref=uk I think you're right, Osborne will be perfectly sanguine about it and might even see it it as validation of his policies. Watch out for spin about food banks being the cause of poverty.

JerryChicken wrote: Osborne has never been to one and in reality probably doesn't care anyway http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/07/11/osborne-food-bank_n_3578565.html?utm_hp_ref=uk I think you're right, Osborne will be perfectly sanguine about it and might even see it it as validation of his policies. Watch out for spin about food banks being the cause of poverty.