Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:51 am  

There is a school of thought that says that the more you build in safety features into cars to protect the driver from any eventuality, the more careless that driver will become - literally care, less, they will not care for their safety (because that is now guaranteed) so why should they care for the world outside of their windscreen ?

That same school of thought also carries the theory that back in the olden days things were a lot safer on the roads because there were no safety devices in cars, in fact most cars used to be death traps.

*Puts flat cap on and draws on his pipe*

Now when ah wor nobbut a lad the first vehicles I drove after passing my test were the Mk1 Ford Escort vans that the company had, vans with seatbelts that no-one used unless they wanted to be labelled a big pufta, vans with steel dashboards that would offer complete resistance if you hit them, steering wheels and steering columns that would not collapse if you hit them, and windscreens that would shatter like normal glass and cut you to ribbons as you passed through them - basically in an accident you were as protected as an egg in a tumble dryer.

Did that make us drive more safely ?

No, it just killed more of us.

Humans are stupid.

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:54 am  

I already have this feature, if I'm within ten miles of the Owlcoates M&S a voice next to me beloows directions until I'm in the car park...

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:00 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

There is a school of thought that says that the more you build in safety features into cars to protect the driver from any eventuality, the more careless that driver will become - literally care, less, they will not care for their safety (because that is now guaranteed) so why should they care for the world outside of their windscreen ?

That same school of thought also carries the theory that back in the olden days things were a lot safer on the roads because there were no safety devices in cars, in fact most cars used to be death traps.

*Puts flat cap on and draws on his pipe*

Now when ah wor nobbut a lad the first vehicles I drove after passing my test were the Mk1 Ford Escort vans that the company had, vans with seatbelts that no-one used unless they wanted to be labelled a big pufta, vans with steel dashboards that would offer complete resistance if you hit them, steering wheels and steering columns that would not collapse if you hit them, and windscreens that would shatter like normal glass and cut you to ribbons as you passed through them - basically in an accident you were as protected as an egg in a tumble dryer.

Did that make us drive more safely ?

No, it just killed more of us.

Humans are stupid.

<robot control voice>
''It's good to see we already have you in our pocket earthling.''

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:21 am  

Neil HFC wrote:

I've just got one of the new Golfs that has a radar at the front, which serves 2 uses.

a) it will adjust your speed when cruise control is set, so if you're slowly creeping up on the car in front it will slow you down to maintain the preset gap. It took a little getting used to, but I quite like it now (certainly more than cruise control that just stayed at the speed you set irrespective of anything else.

b) it will (in theory) apply the brakes at low speeds, if you get to close to the car in front, irrespective of if cruise is on or not. I've not yet had cause to see if that works, and I'm not keen on just trying it to see how it works.

My car is fitted with the same, adaptive cruise control and automatic braking.
The latter DOES work! A few weeks back I was driving at 30mph in a built up area when an eejit pedestrian decided it would be a good idea to cross the road from behind a parked car without looking (Sorry, he WAS looking, but at his 'phone )
I went to brake, but the car beat me to it.. the seat belts tensioned and brakes applied a split second before I could react!) The car stopped in time.
I do feel much safer now, but my only concern is will I in future take driving awareness less seriously knowing full well that the car should react? Thats the worry.
As to going the whole hog, and let it also do the steering, I'm not sure? However, having used the current speed control and braking technology, I'd certainly be more open to that idea now than I would have been previously.

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:18 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

That same school of thought also carries the theory that back in the olden days things were a lot safer on the roads because there were no safety devices in cars, in fact most cars used to be death traps.
Did that make us drive more safely ?

No, it just killed more of us.

You say this as if it were a bad thing, at least the higher number of deaths on the road provided greater potential numbers of organs for donation. Health and safety gone mad.

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:39 am  

the question is whether you would be absolved from blame should your vehicle not take the right corrective action.

If you drive into someone because the automatic braking doesnt work, is the driver liable for the insurance claim or the car manufacturer??

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 10:51 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

Just to divert attention slightly - is there such a thing as a shared pool of knowledge on all insured drivers in the UK ?

Yes, always has been various databases but these have become more and more 'joined up'

JerryChicken wrote:

And if so why do they ask you to self declare your convictions and accidents on every insurance application and then hold that above your head as a tool with which to invalidate your insurance at any point in future if you haven't been entirely truthful - or is that the whole point ? And if they do have access to your claim/conviction history, why don't they deny your insurance right at the point of application rather than take the money and keep the evidence as a Get Out Of Jail Free card for themselves should you ever wish to claim ?

I am pretty cynical about insurers and wouldn't be surprised if there was a red flag "in case of claim" on a policy where something was undeclared. However, they don't have access to DVLA conviction records, and they would I think argue that they can't reasonably do an in-depth investigation of every prospective new policyholder without huge expense, and should be entitled on someone wanting to enter into a contract to tell the truth voluntarily.

I am sure that for anyone with an accidents or claims record, they must have easy pre-policy access to what details are available for you, you address and the vehicle reg.no., if they wanted to use it.

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:04 am  

EHW wrote:

the question is whether you would be absolved from blame should your vehicle not take the right corrective action.

If you drive into someone because the automatic braking doesnt work, is the driver liable for the insurance claim or the car manufacturer??

Two separate things. As the driver, it's up to you, you screw up, you pay the penalty. If you fail to take reasonable action to avoid a collision that your average reasonable driver would have avoided, then usually that is driving without due care and attention.

However, you might I suppose then have a claim against the car manufacturer who sold you something on the basis that if you failed to take action to avoid a collision, then it would, but it hadn't. It would be an interesting argument. Maybe the manufacturer could argue that they were primarily liable for the defective auto-steering; but should pay you nothing as you were 100% contributorily negligent!

Was a case reported this week of a man being awarded $14m in USA where car went off road and side airbag (which was not a compulsory fitting) failed to deploy. Though tbf he was a passenger so couldn't be guilty of contrib. It does show though (as if we didn't know) that technology if fitted will (with 100% certainty) from time to time fail. But your passive airbag going off, or failing to, is one thing; your car suddenly and violently steering you in a different direction is quite another.

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:13 am  

tedglen wrote: My car is fitted with the same, adaptive cruise control and automatic braking. The latter DOES work! A few weeks back I was driving at 30mph in a built up area when an eejit pedestrian decided it would be a good idea to cross the road from behind a parked car without looking (Sorry, he WAS looking, but at his 'phone ) I went to brake, but the car beat me to it.. the seat belts tensioned and brakes applied a split second before I could react!) The car stopped in time. On Tuesday a class action was begun in USA against Toyota claiming that this feature in the Prius doesn't do what it says on the tin

tedglen wrote: My car is fitted with the same, adaptive cruise control and automatic braking. The latter DOES work! A few weeks back I was driving at 30mph in a built up area when an eejit pedestrian decided it would be a good idea to cross the road from behind a parked car without looking (Sorry, he WAS looking, but at his 'phone ) I went to brake, but the car beat me to it.. the seat belts tensioned and brakes applied a split second before I could react!) The car stopped in time. On Tuesday a class action was begun in USA against Toyota claiming that this feature in the Prius doesn't do what it says on the tin

Re: Would you drive a car that could take over steering? : Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:47 am  

I'd like to see a "motorway driving" mode, whereby control is taken by the car, allowing people safely to have a coffee, read, eat, put on make-up, brush their hair, chat on the phone, send texts ... you know, all the stuff they already do.

In town centres, I'd simply ban all private wheeled vehicles that are capable of being used at a faster-than-walking-pace (i.e. wheelchairs and prams would be OK), and only allow deliveries between strict hours.

On housing estates and suburbs, I'd have limits at 20mph or even 10 mph in some places.

Taxis would be subject to the same rules as private cars, instead of being allowed wherever buses can go.

... and that's just for starters ...