Re: Dogs : Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:25 pm  

1905 wrote:

.. I have healthy normal relationships).

How are your sheep, anyway?

Re: Dogs : Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:47 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

A rescue dog of the size and breed reported in this instance is entirely unsuitable for a young family

Being the proud owner of a Dogs Trust GSD myself I can only agree with you, our dog was abandoned by his previous owners when he was approx 18 months old, we don't know any details about him, he was unchipped and had no ID but after being found living on the streets by a dog warden he came to us with his own anxieties about abandonment which manifest themselves in the fact that he will not walk outside of our garden with one person, I spend all day with him (I work from home) and he has bonded with me in the way that all GSD's do but even with me he will not walk on his lead past the end of our drive and onto the street, if two of us go its fine.

The dog behaviourist at Dogs Trust (yes, free life access to a pooch psychiatrist) suggested that its his shepherding instinct not wanting to leave the rest of his family behind but its more than that as he goes into a blind panic fit, cannot be tempted by sausages (unbelievable but true) and will fight with me to get back to the house.

Its not a huge issue to us, we just have to take him out in pairs but he is approx four years old now and has been safe with us for two and half years so it does illustrate just how badly you can screw up a dogs mind by dumping it on the streets at a young age like a toy that you no longer want.

Its a great thing to take on a rescue dog but you also have to be aware that you have no idea of its history or any behaviour problems it may have had in the past or that its rehoming may have caused, they only have two defences when they feel threatened in a strange situation, run or fight, and if they choose the fight option then they only have their mouths to defend themselves with.

Re: Dogs : Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:01 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Being the proud owner of a Dogs Trust GSD myself I can only agree with you, our dog was abandoned by his previous owners when he was approx 18 months old, we don't know any details about him, he was unchipped and had no ID but after being found living on the streets by a dog warden he came to us with his own anxieties about abandonment which manifest themselves in the fact that he will not walk outside of our garden with one person, I spend all day with him (I work from home) and he has bonded with me in the way that all GSD's do but even with me he will not walk on his lead past the end of our drive and onto the street, if two of us go its fine.

The dog behaviourist at Dogs Trust (yes, free life access to a pooch psychiatrist) suggested that its his shepherding instinct not wanting to leave the rest of his family behind but its more than that as he goes into a blind panic fit, cannot be tempted by sausages (unbelievable but true) and will fight with me to get back to the house.

Its not a huge issue to us, we just have to take him out in pairs but he is approx four years old now and has been safe with us for two and half years so it does illustrate just how badly you can screw up a dogs mind by dumping it on the streets at a young age like a toy that you no longer want.

Its a great thing to take on a rescue dog but you also have to be aware that you have no idea of its history or any behaviour problems it may have had in the past or that its rehoming may have caused, they only have two defences when they feel threatened in a strange situation, run or fight, and if they choose the fight option then they only have their mouths to defend themselves with.

Both of my girls are rescue, my lurcher was found on the streets of Hull and taken straight to the pound where we reserved her less than a week later, and my staffy x collie was found on the streets of Wakefield, she had hours to live at the pound when a rescue centre picked her up and she was fostered for about a month before she came to us. We knew nothing about either of them and treated them as such and with caution and understanding until they were fully comfortable.

My behaviourist told me it can take upto 2 years for a rescue dog to feel safe, secure and fully comfortable in a new home. We've had them both for 6 years now and we're still learning about them.

Re: Dogs : Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:16 pm  

Dogs are all descended from wolves, and on a basic level, we know what wolves do. They are a pack animal, they are predators, intelligent and collaborative, and hunt and kill to eat. They are not nasty or vicious or aggressive animals, they just do what they do, because that is how they survive.

The pack structure and communications are highly complex and very inflexible. Wolves (and dogs) know all the signs and signals and that is how they all get along passably well, as each knows its place in the pack, and if it steps out of line then it will be instantly dealt with. Killed, if its behaviour is deemed to endanger the pack.

As humans we've bred a wide variety of domesticated dogs from the wolf, but over centuries the breeding has been very selective, and targeted, like rapid evolution, to achieve the desired characteristics and eliminate others. So what you are left with is modern dogs, a mixture of millennia of wolf heritage, topped with rapid genetic tinkering.

In the home a dog only wants to know its place, and they are happiest and most chilled and best behaved once they accept that they are not in charge, and that they can (and must) leave me to deal with the postman. Anyone who is taught how to mould their dogs behaviour will very quickly notice a huge and amazing change. (I specifically am distinguishing behaviour from obedience; they are different things).

In summary, your dog's behaviour is entirely driven by what it sees as its job, linked to where it perceives its place in the pack (but in some breeds it is inbred that they are naturally inclined to forever challenge for a higher place in the pack, which is why some breeds just aren't suitable for family life). The dog can't help this; its genetic makeup dictates that that's how its behaviour works.

The good news is that you can thus very quickly alter most dogs' behaviour for the better, and get a more content dog, and all without saying a word, or getting any stress. You just need to understand the process and how it works from the dog's point of view. I say "just", but it's the wrong word, as a lot of what you think your dog thinks, or the effect of what you say and do, is very likely the direct opposite of what you think it is. This is why specialists in dog behaviour can come in and control your dog in seconds, and largely sort your dog in hours, when you have found it impossible. They can "think dog" and I'd say the majority of people both think they can do that, and are entirely wrong. They can't understand why however many times they yell at Rover, he still jumps up, fouls or whatever.

Re: Dogs : Thu Nov 07, 2013 7:41 pm  

One should be mindful in these cases of lazy journalism before getting whipped up into a frenzy. One paper, i can't remember which one, thought it was a good idea to look at the womans facebook page, saw the first picture of the girl with a dog, a Mastiff, and ran with it on the front page. What they wouldn't tell you, of course, is that wasn't even the dog that killed her, so props to them for the accuracy and not fueling hatred of certain breeds

Re: Dogs : Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:58 pm  

Sorry, probably a bit of an over reaction on my part to reading about Lexi Branson and what her mother did in an attempt to save a beautiful young girl.

Re: Dogs : Fri Nov 08, 2013 10:34 pm  

1905 wrote:

Sorry, probably a bit of an over reaction on my part to reading about Lexi Branson and what her mother did in an attempt to save a beautiful young girl.

Unfortunately, and this will be a hard thing to bear, her parents may be partly to blame in their lack of understanding of dog behaviour and dog breeds, harsh comment to make, but possibly true.

Re: Dogs : Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:38 am  

1905 wrote:

Sorry, probably a bit of an over reaction on my part to reading about Lexi Branson and what her mother did in an attempt to save a beautiful young girl.

It's a hard thing to read about but Jerry is right, someone's clearly missed something somewhere that's led to a dog being in an unsuitable home. I don't want to speculate too much but a simple explanation could be that the dog, being a former stray, could have suffered some very nasty torment and a child pulling/poking at it's face could quite easily cause a panic.

Re: Dogs : Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:31 am  

So far as I can work out from the brief reports, experts reckon the dog is a cross between probably a bulldog and a bull terrier. Also, it had been wandering in a park, found and captured by the dog warden. It was about 7 or 8 years old.

When they went to get the dog from the rescue centre, there was a sign stating it was unsuitable for families with small children, but it is alleged that seeing this and querying it, they were told it was "all right as long as you don't let it jump up".

I don't want to be harsh on the mother, though anything anyone says will not make her feel any worse than she does, and I can understand why she is looking for someone else to blame, but really, for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would buy a dog that size and that age, which had been found roaming loose and whose character could have been anything, and even consider putting it in the same room as a small child.

Is there anyone else on here that if they'd been her would have taken that dog home to their small daughter?

Re: Dogs : Sat Nov 09, 2013 6:08 am  

My dog, a 6 year old springer x collie, is the most placid, laid back dog I've ever owned. Around two years ago he developed a dislike of attention from young (7-10 years old), blonde girls. If one comes close, he simply turns his head and issues a low, gentle growl.

Now bearing in mind that I've had him from 10 weeks old, this behaviour only manifested itself a couple of years ago and I cannot recollect a single incident where he's had a bad encounter with a young girl, I'm at a complete loss to any explanation for this behaviour. I am now wary of any young girl approaching him but am frankly amazed at the behaviour of some parents. During the Summer we were walking along the high street and while waiting to cross the road, a mother and her two children came behind us. The girl of around 8 years, simply said "lovely doggy" and wrapped her arms around his neck. When I berated the mother for allowing her daughter to behave in such a way with a strange dog, she told me that if I had "a dangerous dog, I shouldn't let it out in public".

I simply walked away shaking my head