Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:00 am  

Incidentally if you want to see how the next 18 months are going to pan out with regards to government proclamations and press releases have a look at this article in The Mail today http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2529714/Duncan-Smith-No-hiding-place-opt-life-benefits.html in which that newspaper seemingly gets an exclusive deal from the DWP to publish the thoughts of IDS. In his statement he skillfully diverts attention away from his department by first of all blaming the previous government for everything - standard - and then mentioning that there are "millions" who are stuck in a lifestyle of claiming benefits rather than working because the previous government made it more financially viable to claim benefits rather than work. A couple of points to counter this - the numbers of claimants who draw down tens of thousands in unworked benefits are small and the bulk of those benefits usually comprise housing benefit and the housing benefit is so large because successive governments have shied away from providing council housing and relied instead on private landlords to take up the slack, at a price - the fact is that most benefits payments, and the largest of benefits payments (working tax credits) are made to those who are currently in work and its THESE people who make up the bulk of his "millions". He then goes on to describe how his personal Universal Credit will change everything being at the same time very careful not to mention how much of a balls up its introduction has been and being careful not to mention that the trial areas are still relying on manual spreadsheets to track payments rather than the expensive software that is not yet working - the delay of several year now being described as "carefully managed" whilst at the same time also pinning blame on the previous government. And when we add up the total number of out of work that he claims have been positively affected by his changes to the benefits system we see that since April the number is 25,000 - so there are "millions" trapped out of work and in benefits and so far we've helped 25,000 of them. Round of applause for the DWP please. More of this to come, if he was a salesman sitting in your office you'd be looking for an excuse to show him the door by now.

Incidentally if you want to see how the next 18 months are going to pan out with regards to government proclamations and press releases have a look at this article in The Mail today http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2529714/Duncan-Smith-No-hiding-place-opt-life-benefits.html in which that newspaper seemingly gets an exclusive deal from the DWP to publish the thoughts of IDS. In his statement he skillfully diverts attention away from his department by first of all blaming the previous government for everything - standard - and then mentioning that there are "millions" who are stuck in a lifestyle of claiming benefits rather than working because the previous government made it more financially viable to claim benefits rather than work. A couple of points to counter this - the numbers of claimants who draw down tens of thousands in unworked benefits are small and the bulk of those benefits usually comprise housing benefit and the housing benefit is so large because successive governments have shied away from providing council housing and relied instead on private landlords to take up the slack, at a price - the fact is that most benefits payments, and the largest of benefits payments (working tax credits) are made to those who are currently in work and its THESE people who make up the bulk of his "millions". He then goes on to describe how his personal Universal Credit will change everything being at the same time very careful not to mention how much of a balls up its introduction has been and being careful not to mention that the trial areas are still relying on manual spreadsheets to track payments rather than the expensive software that is not yet working - the delay of several year now being described as "carefully managed" whilst at the same time also pinning blame on the previous government. And when we add up the total number of out of work that he claims have been positively affected by his changes to the benefits system we see that since April the number is 25,000 - so there are "millions" trapped out of work and in benefits and so far we've helped 25,000 of them. Round of applause for the DWP please. More of this to come, if he was a salesman sitting in your office you'd be looking for an excuse to show him the door by now.

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:26 am  

I'm curious how he's going to make people on unemployment work 35hrs a week applying for jobs. There's only so many jobs out there or is he expecting people to just apply for jobs which they are not suitable just to prove they are making an effort? 35 hours is basically a working week.

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 10:34 am  

We should adopt the Norwegian model, depending on how much you payed in you the national insurance scheme you get either a year or 2 years "on the dole".

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 11:34 am  

World of Redboy wrote:

I'm curious how he's going to make people on unemployment work 35hrs a week applying for jobs. There's only so many jobs out there or is he expecting people to just apply for jobs which they are not suitable just to prove they are making an effort? 35 hours is basically a working week.

And when they do exactly that, they then get their benefits sanctioned for not attending the JCP or taking time off from the Work Fare Programme. I was only reading the other day that a man had a job interview at the same time as his JCP appointment, he asked them if he could re-arrange, which they agreed, only to have his benefit sanctioned for a month for not turning up for his JCP appointment! IDS is a disgrace, he calls himself a Christian, this man wouldn't know how to behave like a Christian (or just a normal, decent, caring bloke) if it hit him in the face with a wet haddock.

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:02 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

We should adopt the Norwegian model, depending on how much you payed in you the national insurance scheme you get either a year or 2 years "on the dole".

And then what?

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:17 pm  

I've long held the opinion that IDS regards the Victorian era described in A Christmas Carol and other Dicken's work as a blueprint for how he would like society to be.
The DWP is the ideal vehicle for him to achieve this dream

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:25 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

And then what?

That's it, 2 years then it stops.

Got that data from the London Evening Standard you said you had?

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:31 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

mentioning that there are "millions" who are stuck in a lifestyle of claiming benefits rather than working because the previous government made it more financially viable to claim benefits rather than work.

Strange. I seem to recall being taught about "the poverty trap" in economics in the 1980's. The trap being that working can mean you are worse off, as you pay tax and NI etc on earnings, so people chose to stay on benefits. We'd had 5 years of Thatcher then, and I doubt it was a new concept anyway.

Its just disappointing that the masses swallow this claptrap from politicians without questioning it, or thinking for themselves.

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:37 pm  

BobbyD wrote:

That's it, 2 years then it stops.

Got that data from the London Evening Standard you said you had?

So what do claimants live on?

Re: A Contemporary Christmas Carol : Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:37 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

And when they do exactly that, they then get their benefits sanctioned for not attending the JCP or taking time off from the Work Fare Programme. I was only reading the other day that a man had a job interview at the same time as his JCP appointment, he asked them if he could re-arrange, which they agreed, only to have his benefit sanctioned for a month for not turning up for his JCP appointment! IDS is a disgrace, he calls himself a Christian, this man wouldn't know how to behave like a Christian (or just a normal, decent, caring bloke) if it hit him in the face with a wet haddock.

Oh Christ, he doesn't have to care, he's part of a team running the country. They set out an agenda, and people either vote for it or not. At the last election the 3 main parties promised massive spending cuts, NHS privatisation and benefit reform among other things. Millions of people voted for these policies. If you weren't one of those, my commiserations but you took a stand. The problem is, with Rachel Reeves promising to be even tougher than the Tories the Conservatives are who you have to vote for otherwise these sanctions will be even more commonplace as Labour will surely get elected, then you'll be praying for the return of the "disgrace" that is IDS.