Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:59 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

What has any arbitrary age got to do with the topic of immersing yourself in an experience as opposed to acting as a cameraperson? If the person holding their phone aloft is 15 or 150 the point remains just the same, but I do wonder whether the younger generation simply feel obliged to record, cos everyone does, and don't quite get what they are missing out on.

I also made the point that I reckon the phenomenon began when relatively portable camcorders became available, and indisputably the people spoiling their holidays in that case were predominantly middle-aged dads, not their kids, who were usually embarrassed by any recording.

I can understand why dads started doing this - they had just learned that they could do it, and aimed to create a permanent record of the holiday, but two pennies had not yet dropped:
(a) that you can't both record all the holiday AND fully participate in it; and
(b) that no fscker will ever want to watch your 20 hours of holiday video, ever, so you're actually wasting your time.

Both points are, with suitable adjustments, I think equally valid to recording concerts.

life changes, society changes, let people do as they wish, within the boundaries of the law, if you don't like it, don't attend.

too many people think their opinion to be right, simply because it's been formed over a longer period of time. Being old doesn't make you wise, or right.

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:25 am  

Prince does the same - his current band came out before he did at recent gigs and spoke to the crowd about it, asking them politely not to take pictures on phones etc. Prince doesn't like it but there's the image thing he tries to control too.

During the gig anyone who was spotted with a camera/phone had a security guy shine a torch right at the lens to spoil the pic. There was much less of it last time in Leeds than there had been in Manchester earlier in the year, so maybe the message is getting through a little

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:40 am  

Chris28 wrote:

Prince does the same - his current band came out before he did at recent gigs and spoke to the crowd about it, asking them politely not to take pictures on phones etc. Prince doesn't like it but there's the image thing he tries to control too.

During the gig anyone who was spotted with a camera/phone had a security guy shine a torch right at the lens to spoil the pic. There was much less of it last time in Leeds than there had been in Manchester earlier in the year, so maybe the message is getting through a little

You are either a celebrity, subject to the public demands, or you are not.

These people make millions by "being seen", it isn't their choice as to what the audience do, IMHO.

If the don't like it, stop performing.

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:01 pm  

Standee wrote:

You are either a celebrity, subject to the public demands, or you are not.

These people make millions by "being seen", it isn't their choice as to what the audience do, IMHO.

If the don't like it, stop performing.

I'm not sure Prince considers himself a "celebrity" and Kate Bush is pretty reclusive, but would being photographed walking down the street be acceptable if you asked someone not to do it, just because you're well known?

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:10 pm  

Standee wrote:

life changes, society changes, let people do as they wish, within the boundaries of the law, if you don't like it, don't attend.

You're an old basstard yourself though, yet you are displaying in that response the sort of ignorant and selfish attitude that is regrettable - at ANY age.

I would suggest it is better for people to respect other people before deciding whether it is fair to "do as they wish". Also "let" is the wrong word, as I am suggesting that people exercise their own self-control, not that they be physically prevented from recording.

Second, - and this may surprise you - I am not Kate Bush. It is she (admittedly over 50) who politely asked people to choose to participate rather than film. To reasonably respect her wishes seems polite to me, if I was attending. To say "fsck you Bush, I am paying for a ticket and so I will do whatever the fsck I like" is an unattractive and regrettable attitude, to me. If not to you.

Standee wrote:

too many people think their opinion to be right, simply because it's been formed over a longer period of time. Being old doesn't make you wise, or right.

Great straw man. But I don't think my opinion that it is preferrable not to be rude, selfish or inconsiderate is actually capable of being wrong. Do you? I would also say that my opinion you will get much more from an event if you immerse yourself in it, rather than being a cameraman, is capable of much sensible counter-argument either, nor that the thousands of shaky phone recordings are in fact largely pointless.

In the case in point, Kate Bush - whose gig it is - is entitled to the opinion she expressed. As is Roger Daltrey. I have great respect for both of their opinions on this issue.

But the way she expressed her point is from the same angle as me: I am asking people to THINK about it - they probably don't really GET the point. I don't see there is anything wrong in therefore making the point. It would be ironic if the recording masses said to Kate Bush, "Fsck you, I'm gonna film it on my phone, if you don't like it, don't attend" - and she didn't attend.

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:50 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

I also made the point that I reckon the phenomenon began when relatively portable camcorders became available, and indisputably the people spoiling their holidays in that case were predominantly middle-aged dads, not their kids, who were usually embarrassed by any recording.

Guilty as charged.

I can understand why dads started doing this - they had just learned that they could do it, and aimed to create a permanent record of the holiday, but two pennies had not yet dropped:
(a) that you can't both record all the holiday AND fully participate in it; and
(b) that no fscker will ever want to watch your 20 hours of holiday video, ever, so you're actually wasting your time.

Yep, you've seen all of those vids of mine haven't you, well that will make two of us because no-one else is in the slightest bit interested.

My £1000 (in the late 1990s) Sony video camera still sits in its expensive case with its sorry collection of tapes gathering dust at the back of the wardrobe, its seen about 20 hours of use and one day will appear in a museum "as new" - passing fad that passed as quick as it arrived in the days when I had more money than sense.

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:56 pm  

I don't see much relevance in the age aspect. In my experience people of a wide span of ages are hypnotised by the need to record events rather than take part in them.

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 2:28 pm  

Standee wrote:

These people make millions by "being seen", it isn't their choice as to what the audience do, IMHO.

If the don't like it, stop performing.

In the fifties a whole bunch of music hall performers couldn't make the transition to TV because they only had one act, and it stayed fresh for their audiences because they were always on the road moving from town to town. It could be a couple of years before they swung by the same town again. But on TV once it's been on Opportunity Knocks everyone's seen it and your career is over.

Now say you're a comedian. You spent months writing your act. It's not your first one, you've done this often before and will do it many times again, but it takes time to produce and get it how you want it. You're now touring it. You've done one date. Your entire act is now online.

Which is fine if you're Kate Bush on a greatest hits tour, but...

Re: Life thru a lens : Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:12 pm  

I actually avoid going on nights out with certain friends because they spend most of their time chatting to people on their phones rather than conversating with the people they have gone out with.

Re: Life thru a lens : Sat Aug 23, 2014 1:20 pm  

At one of the most recent gigs I was at there was a girl filming bits of it on her iPad. I could have happily smashed it over her head.