Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:46 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Personally, I dont think there would be any massive benefit apart from possibly on rail and possibly royal mail.

I'm minded to agree, these aren't really priorities from my perspective but I can see the appeal ideologically if you are of the left.

The railways are moderately easy, just let the franchises expire and the government assumes control like happened on East Coast when the private sector demonstrated their incompetence.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:53 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

Are you saying the private sector is more efficient than the public? From what I've seen that is debatable in lots of organisations, particularly those like the big utilities where they aren't operating in genuinely competitive markets. Operations like the NHS and the old British Rail are/were profoundly lean setups squeezing a lot out of inadequate budgets.

What I am saying is if a private company runs out of cash it goes under - that is not the same for the public sector. Absence from work is significantly higher in the public sector. Add to that the influence of the unions - Labour want to give 5% increases - and these operations will soon be into a negative.

The idea that the NHS is a lean organisation is surely a joke - it does a good job but its far from being lean or anywhere close.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:12 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I know it's fashionable to dismiss your arguments but go on then, give us detail and examples, metrics of outcomes vs spend and levels of overhead vs front line activity in public vs private healthcare to support one of your typically simplistic statements. I won't hold my breath.

wow, you managed to read a whole sentence. The NHS is not lean, but keep kidding yourself.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:39 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Add natural government inefficiency and all you so called profits will disappear - its really simple and there is a host of evidence to back up the additional costs by public ownership.

Show us the evidence, I don’t believe there is any because it’s not true.

The NHS (public ownership) spend £2,892 per person, with everyone entitled to free healthcare.

In the USA (private ownership) they spend £7,617 per person, despite millions been entitled to no healthcare and left to die if they become sick.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:44 pm  

Superblue wrote:

I was associated with one of the privatised water companies throughout one of the 5 year Amp periods.

Total farce,

The water company made 10% profit
The water company solutions consultant made 10% profit
Each of the 3 delivery design consultants made 10% profit.
Each of the 3 delivery contractors made 10% profit.

Folk were told in briefings not to admit to the water company of the profit levels being trousered.

That was just in the Capital Delivery side of things, not including operations and maintenance outsourcing.

And a lot of the equipment installed was crap, from preferred suppliers, with automated systems never working and switched to hand controls, all to reduce manpower and jobs.

And a lot of this cash leaving the country.

So multiply that up by the number of privatised utilities, shafted isn’t the word.

Great post thanks for sharing your experience.
This just highlights how terrible privatising our utilities has been, they are a monopoly privatising them was only ever going to make us worse off, we can’t afford not to nationalise them.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:37 pm  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

Show us the evidence, I don’t believe there is any because it’s not true.

The NHS (public ownership) spend £2,892 per person, with everyone entitled to free healthcare.

In the USA (private ownership) they spend £7,617 per person, despite millions been entitled to no healthcare and left to die if they become sick.

If you lived in the UK when big chunks were nationalised you would see how inefficient these industries really were. Not just that how stagnated they were. BT is a far better company, more innovative more service driven than it ever was under public ownership.

Most would accept France has the best health care service, the best invested in Europe. Its spend per person is £2,050 - it makes the NHS some 40% less efficient. How often are all the theatres used through the night - seldom, so when you talk lean the NHS is miles of being lean.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:48 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

If you lived in the UK when big chunks were nationalised you would see how inefficient these industries really were. Not just that how stagnated they were. BT is a far better company, more innovative more service driven than it ever was under public ownership.

Most would accept France has the best health care service, the best invested in Europe. Its spend per person is £2,050 - it makes the NHS some 40% less efficient. How often are all the theatres used through the night - seldom, so when you talk lean the NHS is miles of being lean.

BT is a dinosaur.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Wed Nov 27, 2019 5:51 pm  

There is no way that Labour will get anywhere near a majority and will probably lose dozens of seats compared with last time. So talk of nationalisation is purely hypothetical.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:53 am  

Dally wrote:

BT is a dinosaur.

Its less of a dinosaur than it was - as a big company it will lack the agility of a smaller more focused firm but its in a different league to what it was.

Re: nationalising the Utility companies ? : Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:58 am  

Dally wrote:

There is no way that Labour will get anywhere near a majority and will probably lose dozens of seats compared with last time. So talk of nationalisation is purely hypothetical.

Agreed - Labour seem to have changed tack on Brexit - they will hiding all the pro-remain cabinet members, they have already hidden Thornberry, Abbott, Buttler, Starmer, etc - see a common thread!!