Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:41 am  

Standee wrote:

... The fact she's work shy ...

The facts say otherwise.

Standee wrote:

... and would rather toss it off volunteering in a museum is immeterial.

I really don't know whether you're trolling here, Standee, or whether you mean that:

1) Working in a museum isn't 'real' work – which itself suggests that museums are worthless;

2) Work experience isn't useful?

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:41 am  

Standee wrote:

... The fact she's work shy and would rather toss it off volunteering in a museum is immeterial.

We don't know that she is workshy and we don't know what her volunteering duties involved.
But yes, it's immaterial to the issue of Poundland being the only winners, if that's what you meant.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:43 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

We don't know that she is workshy ...

On the basis that, after the Poundland nonsense, she apparently went and found a part-time job at Morrisons, while also doing work experience at the museum, it's a fair bet that we know that she is not "workshy".

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 9:45 am  

Mintball wrote:

On the basis that, after the Poundland nonsense, she apparently went and found a part-time job at Morrisons, while also doing work experience at the museum, it's a fair bet that we know that she is not "workshy".

Indeed, fair point.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:09 am  

I like Standee...He is an enigmatic conundrum. He can work himself into an orgasmic lather leading the righteous in a cavalry charge to have injustices over a couple of photos being displaced at the KC...Alternatively he can come on a thread like this and talk narrow-minded bollox!

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:27 am  

What I don’t get is the Work Programme cost the tax payer about £5 billion, I think, and, (as far gaining full-time employment is concerned), being on the WP is worse than ‘doing nothing’.

[DaveO]

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:46 am  

JerryChicken wrote: In principle access to free labour is not a bad idea for most cash strapped businesses who other wise would not be recruiting right now, but it does raise the prospect that these might not turn out to be newly created work experience jobs, but real jobs that were formally filled by people who were employed but are now unemployed because the company got rid of them to fill the vacancy with free labour. The government has been accused of artificially reducing the unemployment figures by 105,000 because they are counting unemployed people on these work placement schemes as employed. From here: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2012-10-23d.124129.h "Those participants whose activity comprises any form of work, work experience or work-related training are classified as in employment. This is regardless of whether the individual is paid or not." There also an issue of people being under-employed i.e. people in work who are seeking longer hours but can't get them. This is also in part thought to be linked to the free labour these work placements provide. Finally there is the issue of falling unemployment yet no growth in GDP. More people said to be in work but the country is not producing more and income tax receipts are down. This is also partly explained by people doing voluntary work on a work placement scheme being classed as employed yet they aren't producing anything nor paying tax or NI because their income is JSA and not a wage from an employer.

JerryChicken wrote: In principle access to free labour is not a bad idea for most cash strapped businesses who other wise would not be recruiting right now, but it does raise the prospect that these might not turn out to be newly created work experience jobs, but real jobs that were formally filled by people who were employed but are now unemployed because the company got rid of them to fill the vacancy with free labour. The government has been accused of artificially reducing the unemployment figures by 105,000 because they are counting unemployed people on these work placement schemes as employed. From here: http://www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2012-10-23d.124129.h "Those participants whose activity comprises any form of work, work experience or work-related training are classified as in employment. This is regardless of whether the individual is paid or not." There also an issue of people being under-employed i.e. people in work who are seeking longer hours but can't get them. This is also in part thought to be linked to the free labour these work placements provide. Finally there is the issue of falling unemployment yet no growth in GDP. More people said to be in work but the country is not producing more and income tax receipts are down. This is also partly explained by people doing voluntary work on a work placement scheme being classed as employed yet they aren't producing anything nor paying tax or NI because their income is JSA and not a wage from an employer.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:51 am  

V6Chuk wrote:

What I don’t get is the Work Programme cost the tax payer about £5 billion, I think, and, (as far gaining full-time employment is concerned), being on the WP is worse than ‘doing nothing’.

Smoke and mirrors, methinks.

The whole Atos/A4e/WorkFare/demonisation of disabled, unemployed, low-paid, anyone on any benefit etc etc is nothing other than playing with deckchairs on the Titanic; the iceberg in question being the fact that there are neither enough jobs around for the working-age population, nor enough jobs that pay a living wage so that the taxpayer does not continue, via in-work benefits, to have to subsidise companies.

Successive governments have both helped to create/facilitate the development of this situation – and not done enough to tackle this central iceberg, while also not telling the public that this is at the heart of the issue.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:59 am  

Mintball wrote:

Smoke and mirrors, methinks.

The whole Atos/A4e/WorkFare/demonisation of disabled, unemployed, low-paid, anyone on any benefit etc etc is nothing other than playing with deckchairs on the Titanic; the iceberg in question being the fact that there are neither enough jobs around for the working-age population, nor enough jobs that pay a living wage so that the taxpayer does not continue, via in-work benefits, to have to subsidise companies.

Successive governments have both helped to create/facilitate the development of this situation – and not done enough to tackle this central iceberg, while also not telling the public that this is at the heart of the issue.

In a shellnut.

Re: Workfare judged illegal : Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:08 am  

Waste of time and money? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... thing.html Happening now. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 2-0003.htm http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/1072 Watch this space? http://www.legislation.gov.uk/new/2013- ... 2013-02-14

Waste of time and money? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... thing.html Happening now. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 2-0003.htm http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2012-13/1072 Watch this space? http://www.legislation.gov.uk/new/2013- ... 2013-02-14