Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:31 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

If we make the huge assumptions that you have made and we follow your line of thinking regarding benefits and, say, halve hers, who gains and who loses?
We, the taxpayers gain, what, £20k?
Then what do we do about those kids?
I guess your answer would be that if you can't afford kids you shouldn't have them, but they exist nonetheless and none of this situation is their fault, they are entirely innocent and blamelesss and the benefits are for their upkeep more than anyone else's.
Should we let them sleep on the streets? starve? send them to the workhouse?.... or what?
Or is it just not your problem and you couldn't fking care less?

What arrant nonsense! Even by Southstanders diminishing standards, that is a pretty poor attempt at fake outrage. No mention of rickets.....sleeping 4 to a bed under a pile of old overcoats.....the mockery of the other schoolkids at the holes in their secondhand clothes, etc etc.

Perhaps a second look at what has been actually written, both here, and in that particular article will help clear the fog?

One simple question people.....Are none of you surprised at the amounts being handed out to these claimants? And yes, we are aware that ticking the required boxes on the pro forma will result in x amount being dished out.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:48 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

... One simple question people...

Why

Mintball wrote:

... at no juncture have you offered anything like an alternative approach that deals with the issues.

?

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:51 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

What arrant nonsense! Even by Southstanders diminishing standards, that is a pretty poor attempt at fake outrage. No mention of rickets.....sleeping 4 to a bed under a pile of old overcoats.....the mockery of the other schoolkids at the holes in their secondhand clothes, etc etc.

Perhaps a second look at what has been actually written, both here, and in that particular article will help clear the fog?

One simple question people.....Are none of you surprised at the amounts being handed out to these claimants? And yes, we are aware that ticking the required boxes on the pro forma will result in x amount being dished out.

Type as much flummery as you like, it doesn't cover up the fact that have either failed to answer (or are ignoring) the vital question.
What would you do about the children?

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:07 am  

Mintball wrote:

Why ?

I'm sorry, is there something in the AUP that requires either me, or the author of this particular article to provide a solution?

Perhaps you could take a moment to answer what was a very simple question......

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:24 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

I'm sorry, is there something in the AUP that requires either me, or the author of this particular article to provide a solution?

Perhaps you could take a moment to answer what was a very simple question......

You are the one getting in a froth about the amount of money in benefits being paid to one family ... but, so far, you appear to be deliberately avoiding saying what you would do otherwise.
I am reasonably sanguine about it because I believe that we, as a society, have a collective responsibility, especially where children are involved.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:24 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

One simple question people.....Are none of you surprised at the amounts being handed out to these claimants? And yes, we are aware that ticking the required boxes on the pro forma will result in x amount being dished out.

No. Because the amounts available are set out in DWP/Benefits Agency/etc. guidelines and rules and these are subject to scrutiny by Ministers and Parliament. If a person is eligible they get the amount set out. Simple. No need for surprise.

What's your view?

[DaveO]

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:40 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

I'm sorry, is there something in the AUP that requires either me, or the author of this particular article to provide a solution?

Perhaps you could take a moment to answer what was a very simple question......

Seems to me you are very good at ignoring others questions and quick to ask your own.

Unless you are thick you know full well cases like the one in question are not typical and are in a minority. I am sure you also ought to be able to work out it would be best for government to direct resources at increasing its revenue to where the great gain can be realised. That isn't by spending time and effort reducing or restricting the benefits this woman receives or looking for houses that have the curtains closed at 11am in the morning.

It would gain fair more by closing tax avoidance loopholes, being better at dealing with tax evasion and doing things like imposing a rent cap which would at a stroke reduce the housing benefits bill. Many more billions to be saved here. You may well say I'd like them to to both, deal with the benefits "scroungers" and deal with tax avoidance, evasion etc but it is simply not practical to do so. So which would you prefer they directed their resources at?

From reading your posts it seems to me you are not interested in the government maximising its revenue but are simply outraged that this woman lives off the state and for some reason give the impression that this exception proves the rule.

You said earlier people should be be incentivised to work as opposed to being able to live off benefits. How would you suggest we do that? Threaten them with poverty and starvation if they don't take any job on offer?

Where are these jobs when we have millions unemployed anyway? What about when the jobs that are available don't pay enough to live off? Would you as a taxpayer be happy to subsidise low paying employers profits just so people "contribute"?

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:03 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

What arrant nonsense! Even by Southstanders diminishing standards, that is a pretty poor attempt at fake outrage. No mention of rickets.....sleeping 4 to a bed under a pile of old overcoats.....the mockery of the other schoolkids at the holes in their secondhand clothes, etc etc.

Perhaps a second look at what has been actually written, both here, and in that particular article will help clear the fog?

One simple question people.....Are none of you surprised at the amounts being handed out to these claimants? And yes, we are aware that ticking the required boxes on the pro forma will result in x amount being dished out.

I'd be careful of how you phrase things if I were you. It could be you one day and I presume, due to your opinion you wouldn't claim diddly squat and you would live off fresh air?

FWIW I think this government know that 99.99% of benefit claimants are not scroungers, shirkers, liars and fraudsters and don't keep their curtains drawn until lunch time but its called propaganda. They churn out these stories day after day, week after week in the likes of the DM to keep the Great British (hardworking tax payer?) Public angry therefore justifying everything they are cutting to the unemployed, the disabled, single parents etc, etc. Just on Monday, the day that DLA ceased to exist to be replaced by PIP the DM ran a story of x% of disability claimants claimed for a bad back. A coincidence? Not on your nelly. They did it because every news channel was reporting that day of the changeover and you would remember the article you read in the DM and get very angry about the "bad back brigade".

Take a step back rumpelstiltskin, do a bit of research and find out for yourself the real stories of these people and don't believe everything you read in the "news"papers.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:14 am  

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

I'm sorry, is there something in the AUP that requires either me, or the author of this particular article to provide a solution?

No. There isn't. Nobody has suggested otherwise.

rumpelstiltskin wrote:

Perhaps you could take a moment to answer what was a very simple question......

Perhaps you'd take a moment to contribute to the discussion with some sort of a reasoned response other than your usual little 'outraged of wherever but offering no possible solutions' routine – not least since others contributing to this discussion have done precisely that.

And just for clarity, that is nothing to do with the AUP and everything to do with debate.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:33 am  

Hull White Star wrote:

I'd be careful of how you phrase things if I were you. It could be you one day and I presume, due to your opinion you wouldn't claim diddly squat and you would live off fresh air?

FWIW I think this government know that 99.99% of benefit claimants are not scroungers, shirkers, liars and fraudsters and don't keep their curtains drawn until lunch time but its called propaganda. They churn out these stories day after day, week after week in the likes of the DM to keep the Great British (hardworking tax payer?) Public angry therefore justifying everything they are cutting to the unemployed, the disabled, single parents etc, etc. Just on Monday, the day that DLA ceased to exist to be replaced by PIP the DM ran a story of x% of disability claimants claimed for a bad back. A coincidence? Not on your nelly. They did it because every news channel was reporting that day of the changeover and you would remember the article you read in the DM and get very angry about the "bad back brigade".

Take a step back rumpelstiltskin, do a bit of research and find out for yourself the real stories of these people and don't believe everything you read in the "news"papers.

Well said.