Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:50 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The old have had their pensions protected for years so not sure how the vast majority of older people are being savaged. The young have ample opportunity to get on it has been a long time since there was this level of employment, the sick so you are getting worse treatment from the NHS when you are sick - really? You might have to wait in A&E if you really shouldn't be there but that's your own fault. Teachers never been as well paid on average they earn c£37k a year how is that savagery? I bet the surgeons and the top administrators in the NHS are thinking I'm being savaged. Perhaps if the NHS weren't so wasteful there would be more money to pay people?

You ought to be a Tory spin doctor.

Pensioners ARE the only group of people to have increased living standards since the Tories returned to power.
However, the young may have some great opportunities, as do the people buying a Euromillions ticket but, it's about the chances of them succeeding in the current economic climate.
The economy, having been stoked by house price inflation for too many years under successive Labour governments, is now perilously held up under staggering levels of personal debt.
Students are carrying £50,000 + debts into their adult lives and we have more zero hours contracts than ever before.
Teacher, along with other local government employees may be on reasonable salaries but, these have been almost frozen over the last six years and have increased at less than inflation nad average pay is 25/25K, not the 37K that you have fabricated.
The NHS is utterly superb but, even the governments own figures show that it is performing less well than it was 6 years ago and the argument about it being wasteful could have been levelled at it at any time in its history -savings can be made in ANY large organisation.
There are some extremely well paid medics and the "scam" that top consultants are able to work (employed by the NHS but, able to carry out private work on top of their "normal" job seems fundamentally wrong, akin to a certain Mr Osborne - full time MP but with a number of other jobs at the same time).

As I said, your "spin" is very positive but not entirely accurate.

Re: General Election 8th June : Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:58 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Pensioners ARE the only group of people to have increased living standards since the Tories returned to power.

Until they become infirm and need hospital and social care; at which point, they are at the mercy of two fundamentally important systems, both of which have been utterly ravaged by the Tories, to the verge of collapse.

Your wealthy pensioners won't have the same experience of course, because if you can privately fund, you won't be stuck with 15 minute home care visits once a day, or a grotty care home that can barely function because the LA can't pay the fees.

Re: General Election 8th Juneyes : Wed Apr 26, 2017 5:05 am  

bren2k wrote:

Until they become infirm and need hospital and social care; at which point, they are at the mercy of two fundamentally important systems, both of which have been utterly ravaged by the Tories, to the verge of collapse.

Your wealthy pensioners won't have the same experience of course, because if you can privately fund, you won't be stuck with 15 minute home care visits once a day, or a grotty care home that can barely function because the LA can't pay the fees.

Maybe its time we stopped keeping people alive just bacause we can?

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:39 am  

Bren are there any positives you can see in this country? You really do dwell on the negative

Re: General Election 8th Juneyes : Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:23 am  

PCollinson1990 wrote:

Maybe its time we stopped keeping people alive just bacause we can?

Jeez, you'll be advocating euthanasia for anyone over 60 next

Do you have a view on those unlucky enough to suffer with dementia or a terminal illness ????

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:35 am  

wire-quin wrote:

Bren are there any positives you can see in this country? You really do dwell on the negative

Politically? At present, it's hard to see any - the Tories are making a grab for power that will let them continue to savage the less fortunate and the services they rely on with even fewer checks and balances; Brexit is a timebomb for the economy; the country is more divided than ever before. And it's raining.

[Bullseye]

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:51 am  

Well an early election at least means Corbyn and McDonnell will resign after June 8th. They've already committed some time ago to going if they lose.

Hardly much of a silver lining but there you go.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:02 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You ought to be a Tory spin doctor.

Pensioners ARE the only group of people to have increased living standards since the Tories returned to power.
However, the young may have some great opportunities, as do the people buying a Euromillions ticket but, it's about the chances of them succeeding in the current economic climate.
The economy, having been stoked by house price inflation for too many years under successive Labour governments, is now perilously held up under staggering levels of personal debt.
Students are carrying £50,000 + debts into their adult lives and we have more zero hours contracts than ever before.
Teacher, along with other local government employees may be on reasonable salaries but, these have been almost frozen over the last six years and have increased at less than inflation nad average pay is 25/25K, not the 37K that you have fabricated.
The NHS is utterly superb but, even the governments own figures show that it is performing less well than it was 6 years ago and the argument about it being wasteful could have been levelled at it at any time in its history -savings can be made in ANY large organisation.
There are some extremely well paid medics and the "scam" that top consultants are able to work (employed by the NHS but, able to carry out private work on top of their "normal" job seems fundamentally wrong, akin to a certain Mr Osborne - full time MP but with a number of other jobs at the same time).

As I said, your "spin" is very positive but not entirely accurate.

Your negativity is duly noted - to address your points:

The opportunities for young are greater than they were when I was leaving education - they can travel/work abroad, they can engage in further education, there are vocational opportunities that are now considered to have equal value to uni. If the kids are willing to get stuck in they will succeed its about desire and application - the economic situation is as good as it has been for since the crash.

If there were no jobs people would not be able to borrow so it suggests more people have jobs under this government - low interest rates rather than house inflation is what is driving spending - a rise in interest rates even 1/2% would see a huge drop i personal debt accumulation.

Who introduced tuition fees? I agree I think it morally wrong - but that is what you get when the higher echelons of Socialism go "I'm all right Jack - you are not going to get the benefits I had, can't have you challenging my cosy lifestyle" and they are supposed to be the party of the people!!

Teachers begin on £23k - £28k in London so I would suggest your average of £25k is a fabrication especially when you consider the impact of dept. heads and head teacher salaries. In 2006 the average was c£31k that's over a decade ago.

The NHS is quandry - if you allow anyone to live here from the EU you will increase its customer base massively. Add to that ageing population and new treatments/higher survival rates and all you get is a money hungry beast that could consume the whole GDP of the UK and it still would not be enough. So what are you proposing - we all agree it needs more money, the Tories have put in £6bn extra. Labour is saying all staff are going to get more money where is that coming from - inheritance will only go so far but it seems Labour are going to scrap it to pay for everything!! The NHS is one of the biggest employers in Europe in 2015 its annual wage bill was £45bn so 1% is an additional £450m if you don't employ anymore staff which the Tories have. So what is your solution?

So you are saying surgeons can only work in the NHS - why? they are doing their required hours within their NHS contract what they do outside of that is surely their own business? Are you saying anyone who uses their skill set outside of their normal job should be stopped or is it just surgeons/toffs? Ok for a plumber to do jobs on the side but not MPs/surgeons. So teachers who give private lessons should also be stopped?

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:33 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Your negativity is duly noted - to address your points:

The opportunities for young are greater than they were when I was leaving education - they can travel/work abroad, they can engage in further education, there are vocational opportunities that are now considered to have equal value to uni. If the kids are willing to get stuck in they will succeed its about desire and application - the economic situation is as good as it has been for since the crash.

If there were no jobs people would not be able to borrow so it suggests more people have jobs under this government - low interest rates rather than house inflation is what is driving spending - a rise in interest rates even 1/2% would see a huge drop i personal debt accumulation.

Who introduced tuition fees? I agree I think it morally wrong - but that is what you get when the higher echelons of Socialism go "I'm all right Jack - you are not going to get the benefits I had, can't have you challenging my cosy lifestyle" and they are supposed to be the party of the people!!

Teachers begin on £23k - £28k in London so I would suggest your average of £25k is a fabrication especially when you consider the impact of dept. heads and head teacher salaries. In 2006 the average was c£31k that's over a decade ago.

The NHS is quandry - if you allow anyone to live here from the EU you will increase its customer base massively. Add to that ageing population and new treatments/higher survival rates and all you get is a money hungry beast that could consume the whole GDP of the UK and it still would not be enough. So what are you proposing - we all agree it needs more money, the Tories have put in £6bn extra. Labour is saying all staff are going to get more money where is that coming from - inheritance will only go so far but it seems Labour are going to scrap it to pay for everything!! The NHS is one of the biggest employers in Europe in 2015 its annual wage bill was £45bn so 1% is an additional £450m if you don't employ anymore staff which the Tories have. So what is your solution?

So you are saying surgeons can only work in the NHS - why? they are doing their required hours within their NHS contract what they do outside of that is surely their own business? Are you saying anyone who uses their skill set outside of their normal job should be stopped or is it just surgeons/toffs? Ok for a plumber to do jobs on the side but not MPs/surgeons. So teachers who give private lessons should also be stopped?

More spin then.

Young people able to travel and work abroad ?

We've just voted out on the EU, which will massively reduce opportunities to live and work abroad.

Borrowing

This wasnt relaxed based on the state of the economy.
A solution had to be found for spiraling house prices and there has been a gradual but substantial relaxation of borrowing regulations, which now allows 3 x joint income and has increased mortgage terms to 35 years.
The cost of borrowing is at an historical low and whilst interest rates are so low and people can service their debt, this isn't a major problem.
However, interest rates can only go in one direction and just a small amount of inflation in the system could see a half or maybe full point increase in interest rates, which would be horrific for those people who are "over exposed" - we are sitting on a financial time bomb, again.
I'm sure that you will recall the melee when we had the banking crash a few years ago, with overdrafts cancelled and loans "called in".
Of course, the more likely outcome will be another fecking recession, which will be just great/

Teachers

Yo said average salaries not average London salaries.
Look again and come back when you have the true figures. there's no point on discussing salaries if you deliberately pick the highest range to compare against.

NHS

We either need to wave the white flag and limit the "services" that The NHS offers or, increase funding, which will have to come form increased taxation.
Sadly, only The Libdems have got the balls to propose this.
Labour and The Conservatives go on pretending that it will be ok because they will do a better job of running the service and they deliberately shy away from telling the general public that if we want the NHS to continue and be able to offer "new" treatments, it will cost each one of us more money.

Consultants.

I dont have a problem with them carrying out "extra" work but if they are full time and "over worked" (as we keep reading about), how can they carry out the additional operations.

They should be FULLY employed by the NHS and helping to reduce the back log of operations.

Re: General Election 8th June : Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:10 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

More spin then.

Young people able to travel and work abroad ?

We've just voted out on the EU, which will massively reduce opportunities to live and work abroad.

Borrowing

This wasnt relaxed based on the state of the economy.
A solution had to be found for spiraling house prices and there has been a gradual but substantial relaxation of borrowing regulations, which now allows 3 x joint income and has increased mortgage terms to 35 years.
The cost of borrowing is at an historical low and whilst interest rates are so low and people can service their debt, this isn't a major problem.
However, interest rates can only go in one direction and just a small amount of inflation in the system could see a half or maybe full point increase in interest rates, which would be horrific for those people who are "over exposed" - we are sitting on a financial time bomb, again.
I'm sure that you will recall the melee when we had the banking crash a few years ago, with overdrafts cancelled and loans "called in".
Of course, the more likely outcome will be another fecking recession, which will be just great/

Teachers

Yo said average salaries not average London salaries.
Look again and come back when you have the true figures. there's no point on discussing salaries if you deliberately pick the highest range to compare against.

NHS

We either need to wave the white flag and limit the "services" that The NHS offers or, increase funding, which will have to come form increased taxation.
Sadly, only The Libdems have got the balls to propose this.
Labour and The Conservatives go on pretending that it will be ok because they will do a better job of running the service and they deliberately shy away from telling the general public that if we want the NHS to continue and be able to offer "new" treatments, it will cost each one of us more money.

Consultants.

I dont have a problem with them carrying out "extra" work but if they are full time and "over worked" (as we keep reading about), how can they carry out the additional operations.

They should be FULLY employed by the NHS and helping to reduce the back log of operations.

You want to stay in Europe what does that mean for house prices it only means one thing - increases, simple economics supply and demand. You can build a lot more houses but where nobody seems to want to use green belt so let's congest our inner cities even more!! Social housing is an answer but where do you build it?

I agree with you on interest rates a gradual raising of interest rates will slow down/reduce borrowing but there are obvious consequences to that - a slow down/recession. Its not a time bomb it is much harder to get a mortgage than it was and negative equity is the issue it was as the days of 100% mortgages are not what they were.

Teachers you cannot exclude London from the average the minimum outside of London is c£23k so again I would suggest your £25k is well under stated.

NHS - I agree you either want the quality or you exclude certain areas as they did with Dentistry. Where do you draw the line or how much is enough. I would not be very keen to donate more so the NHS' customers can abuse it even more!! Wherever you have a view that a service is free then customers will equate that value. Perhaps if more was done to stop customer abuse the NHS e.g. people using A&E when a visit to a chemist would suffice, appointments not being kept etc. could run far more efficiently and wasted monies could be paid to the employees?

So are you suggesting surgeons should work more than the 37.5 hour week they are contracted, which I am sure most will do, just to stop them using their skills to enhance their own income. Perhaps you feel the same about what you do for a living?