Re: General Election campaign : Sat Sep 28, 2019 9:27 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Governments shouldn’t bale out private companies - this is not a bale out this is simply an act of common sense to help citizens in a crisis. A bit like using the emergency services when the flood defences give way.

Let’s be honest the tax revenues excluding VAT the government have received from Thomas Cook will be significantly higher than any cost it will incur in this operation.

Bloody hell, you sound like you may actually have some empathy for people in trouble

As for Thomas Cook having paid large amounts of tax to the government, historically yes but, this year, not much.

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:01 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Bloody hell, you sound like you may actually have some empathy for people in trouble

As for Thomas Cook having paid large amounts of tax to the government, historically yes but, this year, not much.

Guarantee they will have paid more in Employers NI than £60m which is simply a tax on employing people

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 3:51 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Guarantee they will have paid more in Employers NI than £60m which is simply a tax on employing people

Which will be used up (and then some) paying redundancy to its staff.

Like lots of other failing businesses, they have been taking money from its customers, "knowing" that they were in serious financial difficulty.
Many, if not most of their customers will be insured, either through holiday insurance or with indemnity guarantees on their credit cards etc

Does your good will stretch to anyone who has innocently bought a stolen vehicle or lost money on other types of purchase or is it just Thomas Cook customers who you think should be helped.

You weren't too sympathetic to anyone on suicide watch a few days ago and I would have holiday makers way, way, behind them in the queue for government cash.

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 4:19 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You weren't too sympathetic to anyone on suicide watch a few days ago and I would have holiday makers way, way, behind them in the queue for government cash.

Even trying to compare the two is crass.

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:07 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Which will be used up (and then some) paying redundancy to its staff.

Like lots of other failing businesses, they have been taking money from its customers, "knowing" that they were in serious financial difficulty.
Many, if not most of their customers will be insured, either through holiday insurance or with indemnity guarantees on their credit cards etc

Does your good will stretch to anyone who has innocently bought a stolen vehicle or lost money on other types of purchase or is it just Thomas Cook customers who you think should be helped.

You weren't too sympathetic to anyone on suicide watch a few days ago and I would have holiday makers way, way, behind them in the queue for government cash.

Grow up - for a start what do struggling businesses do they have to keep believing to they very end so they keep trading until they are no longer able - it’s like cancer patients who take drugs they know will only give them six months - why because they hope a cure/ saviour will be found. It is obvious you work in the public sector and have never worked in a business with its back against the wall

On the other matter you failed to address the funding in the health service and it not being a bottomless pit. Very difficult choices have to be made - do you allocate the funds to gender reassignment, abortion or do you spend the money on mental health issues. The funds are finite so you tell me where you would spend it?

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:27 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Even trying to compare the two is crass.

You're damn right it's crass.
The poster that want's government funded repatriation for HOLIDAYMAKERS tried to argue that there was insufficient funding for severe mental health cases just a week or so ago but, now believes that holiday makers should benefit from "finite government" resources.

Crass isn't the word I'd use but, I would be banned from posting if I had to properly describe my thoughts on his viewpoint.

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 8:37 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote: Grow up - for a start what do struggling businesses do they have to keep believing to they very end so they keep trading until they are no longer able - it’s like cancer patients who take drugs they know will only give them six months - why because they hope a cure/ saviour will be found. It is obvious you work in the public sector and have never worked in a business with its back against the wall On the other matter you failed to address the funding in the health service and it not being a bottomless pit. Very difficult choices have to be made - do you allocate the funds to gender reassignment, abortion or do you spend the money on mental health issues. The funds are finite so you tell me where you would spend it? Once again you are wrong. Yes, many failing businesses carry on to the bitter end and "fleece" their customers and/ or suppliers and the hole gets ever deeper. However, there are alternatives, many of which I'm sure that Thomas Cook will have looked into. The big surprise is that nobody seems to have linked any of this to Brexit. At a time when millions of people are holding back on big spend items and especially booking overseas holidays, it really is no surprise to see Thomas Cook drop off the cliff edge and I doubt that they will be the last. When there are major doubts surrounding overseas travel, coupled with the shrinking value of the Pound, it wont just be Thomas Cook feeling the pinch. As for NHS spending, I think it was Cameron who said that mental health should be treated like "other forms of illness" and that was back in 2016, where increases in spending were promised - just another lie from yet another Tory politician, although he's like Snow White compared to the current leader. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politi ... erers.html Maybe you could ask him about spending priorities

Sal Paradise wrote: Grow up - for a start what do struggling businesses do they have to keep believing to they very end so they keep trading until they are no longer able - it’s like cancer patients who take drugs they know will only give them six months - why because they hope a cure/ saviour will be found. It is obvious you work in the public sector and have never worked in a business with its back against the wall On the other matter you failed to address the funding in the health service and it not being a bottomless pit. Very difficult choices have to be made - do you allocate the funds to gender reassignment, abortion or do you spend the money on mental health issues. The funds are finite so you tell me where you would spend it? Once again you are wrong. Yes, many failing businesses carry on to the bitter end and "fleece" their customers and/ or suppliers and the hole gets ever deeper. However, there are alternatives, many of which I'm sure that Thomas Cook will have looked into. The big surprise is that nobody seems to have linked any of this to Brexit. At a time when millions of people are holding back on big spend items and especially booking overseas holidays, it really is no surprise to see Thomas Cook drop off the cliff edge and I doubt that they will be the last. When there are major doubts surrounding overseas travel, coupled with the shrinking value of the Pound, it wont just be Thomas Cook feeling the pinch. As for NHS spending, I think it was Cameron who said that mental health should be treated like "other forms of illness" and that was back in 2016, where increases in spending were promised - just another lie from yet another Tory politician, although he's like Snow White compared to the current leader. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politi ... erers.html Maybe you could ask him about spending priorities

Re: General Election campaign : Sun Sep 29, 2019 10:08 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote: Once again you are wrong. Yes, many failing businesses carry on to the bitter end and "fleece" their customers and/ or suppliers and the hole gets ever deeper. However, there are alternatives, many of which I'm sure that Thomas Cook will have looked into. The big surprise is that nobody seems to have linked any of this to Brexit. At a time when millions of people are holding back on big spend items and especially booking overseas holidays, it really is no surprise to see Thomas Cook drop off the cliff edge and I doubt that they will be the last. When there are major doubts surrounding overseas travel, coupled with the shrinking value of the Pound, it wont just be Thomas Cook feeling the pinch. Thomas Cook's problems go back well over a decade. Brexit is surely a small factor, but it's not the deciding factor by any stretch. Most in the industry report like-for-like sales vs 2018, some report growth but only a few report a decrease. That said, the nature of holidays has changed and TC did not embrace that. Last year's heatwave didn't help. You may or may not recall I worked in (scheduled) airline management for many years. That meant I had many a meeting at TC's Peterborough HQ, and at their various subsidiaries and acquisitions (Gold Medal/Netflights, Co-op Travel Group and others), negotiating commercial terms. I know a bit about them, and I know that almost without fail, their growth strategy was a disaster. They tended to snap up strong players and fail to follow up with any significant investment, allowing them to stagnate and lose value. It started with the MyTravel/Airtours merger, which was a disaster. Consequently, since 2011 more than 25% of every holiday sold went to their creditors. This is a good concise summary, although some might say her debt estimate is conservative: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1175 ... 75904.html Plenty have tried blame Brexit. All have been told "don't be blo0dy stupid".

wrencat1873 wrote: Once again you are wrong. Yes, many failing businesses carry on to the bitter end and "fleece" their customers and/ or suppliers and the hole gets ever deeper. However, there are alternatives, many of which I'm sure that Thomas Cook will have looked into. The big surprise is that nobody seems to have linked any of this to Brexit. At a time when millions of people are holding back on big spend items and especially booking overseas holidays, it really is no surprise to see Thomas Cook drop off the cliff edge and I doubt that they will be the last. When there are major doubts surrounding overseas travel, coupled with the shrinking value of the Pound, it wont just be Thomas Cook feeling the pinch. Thomas Cook's problems go back well over a decade. Brexit is surely a small factor, but it's not the deciding factor by any stretch. Most in the industry report like-for-like sales vs 2018, some report growth but only a few report a decrease. That said, the nature of holidays has changed and TC did not embrace that. Last year's heatwave didn't help. You may or may not recall I worked in (scheduled) airline management for many years. That meant I had many a meeting at TC's Peterborough HQ, and at their various subsidiaries and acquisitions (Gold Medal/Netflights, Co-op Travel Group and others), negotiating commercial terms. I know a bit about them, and I know that almost without fail, their growth strategy was a disaster. They tended to snap up strong players and fail to follow up with any significant investment, allowing them to stagnate and lose value. It started with the MyTravel/Airtours merger, which was a disaster. Consequently, since 2011 more than 25% of every holiday sold went to their creditors. This is a good concise summary, although some might say her debt estimate is conservative: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1175 ... 75904.html Plenty have tried blame Brexit. All have been told "don't be blo0dy stupid".

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Oct 03, 2019 9:43 am  

wrencat1873 wrote: Once again you are wrong. Yes, many failing businesses carry on to the bitter end and "fleece" their customers and/ or suppliers and the hole gets ever deeper. However, there are alternatives, many of which I'm sure that Thomas Cook will have looked into. The big surprise is that nobody seems to have linked any of this to Brexit. At a time when millions of people are holding back on big spend items and especially booking overseas holidays, it really is no surprise to see Thomas Cook drop off the cliff edge and I doubt that they will be the last. When there are major doubts surrounding overseas travel, coupled with the shrinking value of the Pound, it wont just be Thomas Cook feeling the pinch. As for NHS spending, I think it was Cameron who said that mental health should be treated like "other forms of illness" and that was back in 2016, where increases in spending were promised - just another lie from yet another Tory politician, although he's like Snow White compared to the current leader. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politi ... erers.html Maybe you could ask him about spending priorities I think the NHS take mental health very seriously problem is the longevity of getting people back to a normal state it can take years - break your leg and you will be 3-5 days if you need an operation 3-5 hours if you need a pot. We come back to the point you seem incapable of addressing - there is a finite amount of money so how do you best use it. If the NHS treated everyone with depression or stress that's all they would do because their wouldn't be any money left for anything else. It is regrettably that people kill themselves - sadly it happens and you will never stop that happening no matter how much money you pump into the NHS - unfortunately some people are beyond help.

wrencat1873 wrote: Once again you are wrong. Yes, many failing businesses carry on to the bitter end and "fleece" their customers and/ or suppliers and the hole gets ever deeper. However, there are alternatives, many of which I'm sure that Thomas Cook will have looked into. The big surprise is that nobody seems to have linked any of this to Brexit. At a time when millions of people are holding back on big spend items and especially booking overseas holidays, it really is no surprise to see Thomas Cook drop off the cliff edge and I doubt that they will be the last. When there are major doubts surrounding overseas travel, coupled with the shrinking value of the Pound, it wont just be Thomas Cook feeling the pinch. As for NHS spending, I think it was Cameron who said that mental health should be treated like "other forms of illness" and that was back in 2016, where increases in spending were promised - just another lie from yet another Tory politician, although he's like Snow White compared to the current leader. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politi ... erers.html Maybe you could ask him about spending priorities I think the NHS take mental health very seriously problem is the longevity of getting people back to a normal state it can take years - break your leg and you will be 3-5 days if you need an operation 3-5 hours if you need a pot. We come back to the point you seem incapable of addressing - there is a finite amount of money so how do you best use it. If the NHS treated everyone with depression or stress that's all they would do because their wouldn't be any money left for anything else. It is regrettably that people kill themselves - sadly it happens and you will never stop that happening no matter how much money you pump into the NHS - unfortunately some people are beyond help.

Re: General Election campaign : Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:38 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

I think the NHS take mental health very seriously problem is the longevity of getting people back to a normal state it can take years - break your leg and you will be 3-5 days if you need an operation 3-5 hours if you need a pot. We come back to the point you seem incapable of addressing - there is a finite amount of money so how do you best use it. If the NHS treated everyone with depression or stress that's all they would do because their wouldn't be any money left for anything else.

It is regrettably that people kill themselves - sadly it happens and you will never stop that happening no matter how much money you pump into the NHS - unfortunately some people are beyond help.

You, once again are talking rubbish.
If a young person threatens suicide, it takes THREE MONTHS before they are referred. If you break your leg, you are seen within hours and a leg break isn't life threatening.
Of course, if that young person starts to bleed out, they will be seen immediately, if they are lucky.

You really dont know what you are talking about and it may be better if you STFU