Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 11:11 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

This "politics of envy" thing.
The only time I have ever claimed any kind of financial benefit was when I was unemployed, back in the early 1990s.

I am well paid and, apart from that period, I have enjoyed a good life.
I put this down to willingness, hard work, having the right skills at the right time, a decent state education and state health care ... and a generous dollop of luck.

I am not so arrogant as to think that I achieved a good life all by myself, because I didn't.
I have benefitted greatly from the NHS and State education (grammar school) which vastly improved my chances in life.

But I look around me and I see people who work hard, people who are willing to get up in the morning, people who take a pride in providing for their families but nonetheless amongst whom are people who need a hand, people who would rather not need that hand but need it anyway.
I believe that everyone should be paid a living wage ... the old saying "a fair day's work for a fair day's pay" but the market left to its own devices forces down some pay to levels where, no matter how hard you work, you can't save for a pension, buy a house or even afford insurance.
The idea that they should simply work harder is vacuous, they are already working hard, often at multiple jobs in an environment where applicants exceed jobs by about a ratio of six-to-one.
The market fails these people.
I regard it as our duty as a civilised society to help.

I am not envious of those richer than me.
Indeed, I look at those among them whose every waking thought is "Me, me, me" and I am glad that I am not living inside their heads.
I am glad that I can't look the other way to avoid seeing children suffer just so that I have a few extra quid to spend on stuff I don't need.
They will sneer about the rare examples of people fleecing the system, blinkering themselves to the true state of society.
I pity them.

Rubbish! You wish you could afford to wipe your shitbox on £20 notes like Standee.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 11:25 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

I am not envious of those richer than me.
Indeed, I look at those among them whose every waking thought is "Me, me, me" and I am glad that I am not living inside their heads.
I am glad that I can't look the other way to avoid seeing children suffer just so that I have a few extra quid to spend on stuff I don't need.
They will sneer about the rare examples of people fleecing the system, blinkering themselves to the true state of society.
I pity them.

I'll be playing with the millionaires and multi-millionaires in four weeks time, probably dining again on a yacht that cost more than my house did, certainly visiting at least one villa that cost more than my whole street of houses and is filled with playthings that if listed on eBay would keep me in a good income for a couple of years - its all very false and much of it is done through boredom or because something else is missing from those people's lives, it all looks very nice on the surface but the reality is that it does not impress me one little bit and my attitude towards them is of ambivalence, it might even be why I keep getting invited back purely because its obvious that I don't give a damn about their wealth and am not the normal Yes-Man that they surround themselves with - its nice to play for a few days but nicer to come home to what is actually yours and have friends who don't care what you earn or whether you've got this seasons jet-ski (not last years for gods sake).

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 12:00 pm  

Standee wrote:

oh dear, I dont

I ask why people who want something for nothing think they are entitled to it.

but there's no balance here, so it's not really a discussion so much as a lecture from those that feel they know best.

Quite. I always enjoy watching poor people claim they are happy being poor.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 12:48 pm  

Why should the state pay for this that or the other? The answer is simple. The state denies people the basic freedom to live a free hunter, gatherer life off the land which as animals we should have the "right" to. As such it should assist those who cannot earn a decent living in the system that the state deems appropriate.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 1:19 pm  

I've hand on heart never been remotely interested in money.
I think being single at 47 means I've been fairly fortunate in that concept.

I've had plenty, I've blown plenty, I've had nowt.

Currently receiving £71 a week.
I'll survive.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 2:01 pm  

And to be perfectly honest that's why I regale against people like Standee and find them fairly unpalatable.
It's not just the financial greediness it's the greediness of his nature that is most unappealing.
If you live life and try your hardest to enjoy it, you aren't particularly interested in what people should or shouldn't have.
Just a level of decency for all would suffice for me.

I guess I shouldn't be so rounded.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 2:18 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

And to be perfectly honest that's why I regale against people like Standee and find them fairly unpalatable.
It's not just the financial greediness it's the greediness of his nature that is most unappealing.
If you live life and try your hardest to enjoy it, you aren't particularly interested in what people should or shouldn't have.
Just a level of decency for all would suffice for me.

I guess I shouldn't be so rounded.

Its an attitude that is very prevalent among the self employed or business owners who have created their own business from scratch - worst still are those who inherited a going concern and continue to accept the platitudes for it.

What they fail to acknowledge is that the vast majority of successful business owe their existence not to the brilliance and acumen of their owners, but to pure good fortune, the "right place at the right time" concept, the order that came out of the blue at a time when everything looked bleak, the failure of a competitor, the almost accidental discovery of a new product that within six months is a must-have - I've been there and done all of those things and claim no credit for having the first clue over what was happening most of the time and unless you're a fortune teller then neither will anyone else, the principle of ""business acumen" is plain bollax and when you get inside some businesses and see how they are run then you do start to wonder how they have ever survived for so long let alone steal a good living for the person at the top.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 2:40 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

Its an attitude that is very prevalent among the self employed or business owners who have created their own business from scratch - worst still are those who inherited a going concern and continue to accept the platitudes for it.

What they fail to acknowledge is that the vast majority of successful business owe their existence not to the brilliance and acumen of their owners, but to pure good fortune, the "right place at the right time" concept, the order that came out of the blue at a time when everything looked bleak, the failure of a competitor, the almost accidental discovery of a new product that within six months is a must-have - I've been there and done all of those things and claim no credit for having the first clue over what was happening most of the time and unless you're a fortune teller then neither will anyone else, the principle of ""business acumen" is plain bollax and when you get inside some businesses and see how they are run then you do start to wonder how they have ever survived for so long let alone steal a good living for the person at the top.

I'd go for most of that JC.
My older brother is the European MD of a worldwide business consortium.
He' came off a council estate, single parent (barmaid) upbringing, with no University education, and didn't particularly have to suck cock to get to where he is today.
He was just talented and knew where he wanted to be.
He is a wealthy man now but has no meaness of spirit like some on here.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 3:00 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

I'd go for most of that JC.
My older brother is the European MD of a worldwide business consortium.
He' came off a council estate, single parent (barmaid) upbringing, with no University education, and didn't particularly have to suck cock to get to where he is today.
He was just talented and knew where he wanted to be.
He is a wealthy man now but has no meaness of spirit like some on here.

More than likely he has worked hard (but so do many others) but that he had some lucky breaks along the way - see Richard Branson for someone who tried and failed quite a few times before he got the breaks, it helped that his family were slightly affluent too.

Re: Austerity gone too far? : Tue May 07, 2013 3:16 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

...and didn't particularly have to suck cock to get to where he is today.

Not particularly?