Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Wed Mar 19, 2014 5:59 pm  

Kelvin's Ferret wrote:

Argument doesn't really work. Bradford has never been part of Pakistan, and Pakistan has never made any claim on Bradford being part of Pakistan. Also, the people of Bradford with Pakistani origin are migrants or the descendents of migrants, they left one territory for another a long way away. Crimea on the other hand was part of the Russian Empire from 18th century and then it's successor the Soviet Empire in the 20th century, it was only ceded to Ukraine within the context of Ukraine also being part of that Soviet Empire. So it's existence outside of effective Russian control is a relevatively short post-Soviet experience.

I'd guess the majority of those in Crimea, who consider themselves Russian, were actually born in the Ukraine - It doesn't matter how recently Russia gave Crimea to the Ukranians, you can't just march back in on the whim of the people, without at least trying to negotiate with the people who legally 'own' the land.

The scary thing is, if Russia are allowed to get away with this method of land grabbing, then I fear this won't be the last such incident in Eastern Europe.

I'm all for the will of the people, but things have to be done properly (negotiation, proper legal referendum, etc).... A rush job referendum, loaded towards those who have called that vote, isn't really how you should be doing things.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Wed Mar 19, 2014 6:55 pm  

Putin should have just stated that his secret service, (SVR) had informed him of the possibility the Ukranians had WMD pointed at the Kremlin.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:43 am  

Another leaked tape not being reported by any Western Media. Of course I don't speak Ukrainian so can't verify what she actually says but if the subtitles are anything to go by Tymoshenko is another nasty piece of work the Western powers love to support. http://rt.com/news/tymoshenko-calls-destroy-russia-917/

Another leaked tape not being reported by any Western Media. Of course I don't speak Ukrainian so can't verify what she actually says but if the subtitles are anything to go by Tymoshenko is another nasty piece of work the Western powers love to support. http://rt.com/news/tymoshenko-calls-destroy-russia-917/

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:13 am  

There's a Mitchell and Webb sketch [Are we the baddies?] that has me thinking sometimes, we hear all the stuff in the media and wonder if we are given a balanced viewpoint and just because Putin DOES have SOME vile policies, is he wrong on this one?

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:10 am  

It doesn't really matter if Putin is "right" or "wrong", he has very carefully calculated what he can and can't do and the answer was he can annex Crimea with little or no meaningful repercussions. I expect he is weighing in the balance whether the probably slightly greater problems of annexing Ukraine itself are worth the candle.

ATEOTD unless you are prepared to go to war with Russia (or whoever it may be) then diplomacy is never going to prevent such action. And while some level of sanctions may cause Putin real issues, he knows full well that the chance of military conflict with the west is nil. The USA will pick on isolated basket cases like Iraq, and the UK will happily hang on to its coat-tails, but there isn't a cat in hell's chance of Putin's bluff being called, and ultimately all we rely on is his good will not to do such takeovers. Nobody was or is ever gonna prevent them.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:29 pm  

Seems like the Western puppets who have hijacked the government in Ukraine have decided to start executing their useful far right idiots. No sympathy for the Nazi thug who died but just shows how ruthless the bankster backed Kiev Mafia really are . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df-P5eXnp3k#t=37 Also has anybody seen the austerity measures they have to impose to get an IMF loan? Drastic cuts in energy subsidies, an end to state subsidies towards any businesses making them noncompetitive against Western competition, a 50% cut in pension payments and an indefinite freeze on public sector work pay. Should all go down well to the average Ukrainian!

Seems like the Western puppets who have hijacked the government in Ukraine have decided to start executing their useful far right idiots. No sympathy for the Nazi thug who died but just shows how ruthless the bankster backed Kiev Mafia really are . . . . . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Df-P5eXnp3k#t=37 Also has anybody seen the austerity measures they have to impose to get an IMF loan? Drastic cuts in energy subsidies, an end to state subsidies towards any businesses making them noncompetitive against Western competition, a 50% cut in pension payments and an indefinite freeze on public sector work pay. Should all go down well to the average Ukrainian!

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:52 pm  

I think this sums up things reasonably well: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... Putin.html

I think this sums up things reasonably well: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... Putin.html

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:00 pm  

As an aside...Peter Hitchens, what a humourless turd he is.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Thu Mar 27, 2014 8:42 pm  

An example of the new 'democrats' in action. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/h ... -1.1727271 I also see Clegg somehow thinks he's got Farage on the ropes, accusing him of supporting Putin because he said the EU has blood on it's hands in regards to Ukraine. He intends bringing this point up in their next head to head debate. I really hope he does because I'm pretty sure Farage will demolish him and expose some truths about the people our leaders are supporting over there.

An example of the new 'democrats' in action. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/h ... -1.1727271 I also see Clegg somehow thinks he's got Farage on the ropes, accusing him of supporting Putin because he said the EU has blood on it's hands in regards to Ukraine. He intends bringing this point up in their next head to head debate. I really hope he does because I'm pretty sure Farage will demolish him and expose some truths about the people our leaders are supporting over there.

Re: Hypocrisy Of The West Regarding Ukraine : Fri Mar 28, 2014 2:46 pm  

Far Right protesters ready to storm parliament. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -vote.html

Far Right protesters ready to storm parliament. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -vote.html