[Mild Rover]

Re: Why ? : Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:11 am  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

There are 1.25m vacancies - I would suggest if firms want to retain decent staff the opposite will happen - increases in rates of pay Amazon starting is £11.50/hour - better benefits. The market will determine the level not the unions.

Most markets are shaped by regulations, to a large degree and for better or worse.

The Conservative Party has changed. It isn’t yet clear how permanently or exactly into what, but my instinct always to assume the worst of them. I mean, becoming UKIP has worked for them to this point but post-Brexit and without any clear plan vision or plan for what comes next, the capitalism red in tooth and claw wing of the party could emerge triumphant. Johnson is an intermission in political direction - the wonky shopping trolley described by Craig Oliver and Dominic Cummings.

Re: Why ? : Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:07 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

Most markets are shaped by regulations, to a large degree and for better or worse.

The Conservative Party has changed. It isn’t yet clear how permanently or exactly into what, but my instinct always to assume the worst of them. I mean, becoming UKIP has worked for them to this point but post-Brexit and without any clear plan vision or plan for what comes next, the capitalism red in tooth and claw wing of the party could emerge triumphant. Johnson is an intermission in political direction - the wonky shopping trolley described by Craig Oliver and Dominic Cummings.

The basic principle of supply and demand works in most markets - even the public sector - you want to attract more nurses pay them more, burserys etc.

I think Johnson will survive as long as Labour have weak leadership - once Johnson goes the Tories will revert back to type Sunak-type.

Re: Why ? : Mon Oct 25, 2021 3:04 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

There are 1.25m vacancies - I would suggest if firms want to retain decent staff the opposite will happen - increases in rates of pay Amazon starting is £11.50/hour - better benefits. The market will determine the level not the unions.

That'll be the same "market" thats responsible for our chaotic railways and raw sewerage being discharged into our rivers.

Re: Why ? : Tue Oct 26, 2021 9:14 am  

silver2 wrote:

That'll be the same "market" thats responsible for our chaotic railways and raw sewerage being discharged into our rivers.

Are you suggesting the railways and the water supply were better when they were in public ownership?

A big issue with both are the legacy issues inherited from public ownership?

On the news this morning it was suggested in would cost between £150-600bn to put the water/sewage supply back to where it should be.

I am all for public ownership of key services - I am old enough to remember when it was all in public ownership and I would say be careful what you wish for

Re: Why ? : Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:48 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

Are you suggesting the railways and the water supply were better when they were in public ownership?

A big issue with both are the legacy issues inherited from public ownership?

On the news this morning it was suggested in would cost between £150-600bn to put the water/sewage supply back to where it should be.

I am all for public ownership of key services - I am old enough to remember when it was all in public ownership and I would say be careful what you wish for

But this is such a spurious, apples to oranges comparison.

How much money - from government and from fares - did we invest in the railways when they were in public ownership? They were starved for decades, we now pour billion upon billion into them with significantly higher fares and huge amounts are creamed off as profit for private enterprises. If we'd put the same amount into the privately-owned BR it would have made an amazing difference.

Look at DB, look at SNCF, look at FS and you'll see what properly-invested in, publicly-owned railway look like in terms of fares and network and reliability. The straw man of a desperately underfunded BR is almost irrelevant at this point.

Re: Why ? : Wed Oct 27, 2021 10:11 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

But this is such a spurious, apples to oranges comparison.

How much money - from government and from fares - did we invest in the railways when they were in public ownership? They were starved for decades, we now pour billion upon billion into them with significantly higher fares and huge amounts are creamed off as profit for private enterprises. If we'd put the same amount into the privately-owned BR it would have made an amazing difference.

Look at DB, look at SNCF, look at FS and you'll see what properly-invested in, publicly-owned railway look like in terms of fares and network and reliability. The straw man of a desperately underfunded BR is almost irrelevant at this point.

So you have confirmed my analysis thank you - as I said be careful what you wish for when you are all clamouring for a return to public ownership.

Re: Why ? : Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:11 pm  

Zoo Zoo Boom wrote:

So you have confirmed my analysis thank you - as I said be careful what you wish for when you are all clamouring for a return to public ownership.

I have no idea what you think you've proved but I travel thousands of miles a year on French and Italian railways and they are miles ahead of the railway services in the UK.

Re: Why ? : Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:53 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

I have no idea what you think you've proved but I travel thousands of miles a year on French and Italian railways and they are miles ahead of the railway services in the UK.

There's nothing shabby about being the third best railway in the world.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Why ? : Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:21 pm  

chissitt wrote: There's nothing shabby about being the third best railway in the world. Very safe but with comparatively poor service according to this 2017 report. https://www.consultancy.uk/news/13535/e ... ce-quality

chissitt wrote: There's nothing shabby about being the third best railway in the world. Very safe but with comparatively poor service according to this 2017 report. https://www.consultancy.uk/news/13535/e ... ce-quality

Re: Why ? : Wed Oct 27, 2021 2:53 pm  

Having used the railways in countries like China, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore, Holland, Germany, France and Scandinavia, I can honestly say the UK railways, and service is are light years behind these countries.