Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 9:36 pm  

cod'ead wrote: Getting Married Well you learn something every day.

cod'ead wrote: Getting Married Well you learn something every day.

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 9:37 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

No, all flavours of Christianity can as can Judaism (there maybe a few more), anyone else need a certificate from the registry office but they do not need to have the civil ceremony. Pretty much the same as up here with Humanist weddings.

Incorrect. The Church of England is the established church in England and only its ministers are registrars. In the case of all other faiths as well as other Christian denominations, a couple have to legally register their marriage with a registrar in addition to completing their religious ceremony.

[Wheels]

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 9:40 pm  

Here's a little song on the subject. Lovely stuff. I got married two weeks ago, it was the happiest day of my life. There should be no way that any two people could be denied the opportunity to experience it.

Here's a little song on the subject. Lovely stuff. I got married two weeks ago, it was the happiest day of my life. There should be no way that any two people could be denied the opportunity to experience it.

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 9:40 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Incorrect. The Church of England is the established church in England and only its ministers are registrars. In the case of all other faiths as well as other Christian denominations, a couple have to legally register their marriage with a registrar in addition to completing their religious ceremony.

That's the one thing we lack up here is the Church of England...

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 9:49 pm  

Rock God X wrote:

You've never done anything other than defend the Church and its teachings. You're no more 'agnostic' than Kirkstaller.

I haven't defended anything. I simply know a lot about the church (in particular the Church of England) and know something of the other monotheistic religions also. I also happen to agree that by granting gay people marriage, it is changing the meaning of marriage in this country as has been understood and legally recognised for centuries. And I'm not backing that assertion up with evidence again as I have already presented evidence to back that up.

Are you seriously trying to suggest that Christians don't believe that The Bible is the 'word of God'? Seriously?

I didn't say that at all. I said there were two interpretations of 'the word of God': the Bible as an inspired text and Jesus. That is what I said before, that is what I have said now.

"As we know, the Sacred Scriptures are the written testimony of the divine word..."

"Sacred Scripture is the speech of God as it is put down in writing under the breath of the Holy Spirit."

Beautiful. In what way does that contradict what I said?

Human beings have been around for 200,000 years or so, so the fact that a particular religion controlled marriage in this country for 700 years or so does not mean they 'own' it.

It does if it is that version of the ceremony that is being changed, which it is.

Civil marriage, by your own admission, has existed since 1836, so the church has had no 'ownership' of those marriages for nearly 200 years.

Upon what do you think the civil marriage was based? For example, when did it become culturally acceptable for children to be born 'outside of wedlock' as the old-fashioned saying went?

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 10:02 pm  

SaintsFan wrote:

Upon what do you think the civil marriage was based?

Erm the same things religious marriages are based on, the pagan rites the Christians co-opted to make their faith attractive to followers of other belief systems.

Where do you think we get expressions like living over the brush or tying the knot come from.

SaintsFan wrote:

For example, when did it become culturally acceptable for children to be born 'outside of wedlock' as the old-fashioned saying went?

You are better off trying to work out when it became culturally unacceptable.

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Thu May 23, 2013 10:18 pm  

Big Graeme wrote:

That's the one thing we lack up here is the Church of England...

You should be so lucky

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Fri May 24, 2013 2:28 am  

SaintsFan wrote:

Incorrect. The Church of England is the established church in England and only its ministers are registrars. In the case of all other faiths as well as other Christian denominations, a couple have to legally register their marriage with a registrar in addition to completing their religious ceremony.

Almost completely incorrect. Well done.

The CAB has a fairly succinct summary of the position:

The Church of England and the Church in Wales are allowed to register a marriage at the same time as performing the religious ceremony.

Ministers and priests of all other religions i.e. not C of E can be authorised to register marriages and must have a certificate or licence to do so from the local Superintendent Registrar. For Jewish and Quaker marriages, the authorisation is automatic. For all other religions, if the official performing the ceremony is not authorised, either a Registrar must attend the religious ceremony or the partners will need to have separate religious and civic ceremonies.

If you want chapter and verse, then see (not the Bible, but) ss.53, 54 et al Marriage Act 1949.

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Fri May 24, 2013 5:07 am  

According to Tatchell on last night's QT, same-sex marriage was only specifically excluded from the Marriage Act after an amendment was passed in 1971

Re: Referendum on gay marriage? : Fri May 24, 2013 7:22 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Almost completely incorrect. Well done.

The CAB has a fairly succinct summary of the position.

Thanks for that, I knew I had read something like that when we were looking into Humanist ceremonies but I was damned if I could find it.