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Ajw71 
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:26 pm  
rumpelstiltskin wrote:

One simple question people.....Are none of you surprised at the amounts being handed out to these claimants? And yes, we are aware that ticking the required boxes on the pro forma will result in x amount being dished out.


Most people recognise that the system isn't working, and this is reflected by the fact the majority are in favour of welfare reform.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:35 pm  
Ajw71 wrote:
Most people recognise that the system isn't working, and this is reflected by the fact the majority are in favour of welfare reform.

You got a link to back that up?

I don't necessarily disagree, but you need to back up statements about what you claim the "majority" wnat.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:39 pm  
DaveO wrote:
Well this is quite insightful as it points to ignorance on your part. Not of how much is available so much but what the costs are such as housing benefit. Unless she is in an area where the governments experiment of paying housing benefits direct to claimants is going on (and failing) she won't even see the housing benefit as it goes direct to the landlord. So she won't get £32K a year paid to her anyway and that will be a large part of that cost.

Your taxes line the landlords pockets, not hers.

That is ironic coming from you. You moan she isn't incentivised to work yet when the reality of what that would mean is pointed out to you all you can do is "smile" because clearly, you haven't got a clue.



£8580 per annum paid direct to the landlord.

£4524 per annum paid as child benefit, a non means tested benefit that every parent in the country gets, even David Cameron.

£15024 per annum paid as child tax credit, a benefit which at that level is income based and not contributory, the actual figure dependant on the number of under 16s or under 18s in full time education living at the property in the parental care of the claimant, a figure that is carefully calculated according to stringent rules and not just handed out willy-nilly as anyone who has ever claimed it will confirm.

The Mail claim that she gets £303 a month in income support which cannot be correct as this is paid at a maximum of £56 per week, income support is for those exceptional circumstances when a person or family are literally living below the poverty line, you have to be working less than 16 hours per week (or not at all), pregnant or a carer or a single parent with a child under 5, and have no other source of earned income, it can be claimed by the homeless, you do not qualify if you are claiming job seekers allowance - in other words its for the destitute and those who cannot work through circumstances other than disability and its the claiming of income support that then entitles you to the full rate of income based child tax credits.


So she starts off with no income and no support from her estranged husband, the state pays for her rent after she is evicted from her own house and because with young children she is a priority for social housing, and then gives her £56 a week income support which then entitles her to the child tax credit, the child benefit is paid as a matter of course whether she was a millionaire or penniless.

She does herself no favours by claiming that she can't survive on less but even so I can see that it would be a challenge to raise seven children on £1900 a month, its do-able though.

The proposed cap of £26k will remove £5000 straight out of the household cash budget because I don't suppose for one minute that the landlord will agree to shoulder some of that reduction, so £1400 a month to raise seven children and pay all of the utility bills etc etc (bear in mind that the house will be occupied right through the day with a young child and will need heating in the winter), its probably pitched at a level that most would think reasonable but it will be tight.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:46 pm  
Chris28 wrote:
You got a link to back that up?

I don't necessarily disagree, but you need to back up statements about what you claim the "majority" wnat.


I think he may mean the majority of right-wing nutjobs and those too thick to see behind the Wail and Sun's agendas
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:11 pm  
Chris28 wrote:
You got a link to back that up?

I don't necessarily disagree, but you need to back up statements about what you claim the "majority" wnat.


I'd additionally ask what someone means by "isn't working".

In what way? How would they change it? etc – not least when we have such high levels of unemployment and underemployment.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:22 pm  
cod'ead wrote:
I think he may mean the majority of right-wing nutjobs and those too thick to see behind the Wail and Sun's agendas


No, I mean ordinary right thinking members of society.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:33 pm  
Chris28 wrote:
You got a link to back that up?

I don't necessarily disagree, but you need to back up statements about what you claim the "majority" wnat.


I have had this exact same discussion with Kosh a few weeks ago.

There are multiple opinion polls out there suggesting general support for welfare reform.

The few posters on this forum who oppose welfare reform do so mainly for two reasons 1. An inherent hatred of the Conservative party and all reforms they attempt or 2. They are ideologically opposed to any reform of the welfare state because they are socialist leaning. Some are both.

This article puts it very nicely.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... and-right/
Chris28 wrote:
You got a link to back that up?

I don't necessarily disagree, but you need to back up statements about what you claim the "majority" wnat.


I have had this exact same discussion with Kosh a few weeks ago.

There are multiple opinion polls out there suggesting general support for welfare reform.

The few posters on this forum who oppose welfare reform do so mainly for two reasons 1. An inherent hatred of the Conservative party and all reforms they attempt or 2. They are ideologically opposed to any reform of the welfare state because they are socialist leaning. Some are both.

This article puts it very nicely.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... and-right/
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:54 pm  
Oh FFS don't start with polls again.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:09 pm  
Ajw71 wrote:
I have had this exact same discussion with Kosh a few weeks ago.

There are multiple opinion polls out there suggesting general support for welfare reform.

The few posters on this forum who oppose welfare reform do so mainly for two reasons 1. An inherent hatred of the Conservative party and all reforms they attempt or 2. They are ideologically opposed to any reform of the welfare state because they are socialist leaning. Some are both.

This article puts it very nicely.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... and-right/

As an aside, I went to see Derren Brown last week, and he quoted a historical figure (can't remember who) who said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"

"Multiple opinion polls out there" isn't that. The reason you had this discussion with Kosh is that you're making outlandish claims with no evidence to back them up. He saw it, and plenty of others can see it.
Ajw71 wrote:
I have had this exact same discussion with Kosh a few weeks ago.

There are multiple opinion polls out there suggesting general support for welfare reform.

The few posters on this forum who oppose welfare reform do so mainly for two reasons 1. An inherent hatred of the Conservative party and all reforms they attempt or 2. They are ideologically opposed to any reform of the welfare state because they are socialist leaning. Some are both.

This article puts it very nicely.

http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehous ... and-right/

As an aside, I went to see Derren Brown last week, and he quoted a historical figure (can't remember who) who said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"

"Multiple opinion polls out there" isn't that. The reason you had this discussion with Kosh is that you're making outlandish claims with no evidence to back them up. He saw it, and plenty of others can see it.
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Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:17 pm  
Chris28 wrote:
As an aside, I went to see Derren Brown last week, and he quoted a historical figure (can't remember who) who said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof"

"Multiple opinion polls out there" isn't that. The reason you had this discussion with Kosh is that you're making outlandish claims with no evidence to back them up. He saw it, and plenty of others can see it.


What an earth are you on about? Have you read anything I have just posted?

He even said words to the effect of 'I haven't disputed it'. I'll find his exact quote if you like really insist I trawl through old posts.
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