Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 10:24 am  

Mable_Syrup wrote: Yep. You knew what I meant. I've only heard of it called the Union Jack. Learn something new every day. http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british ... nion-flag/ http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25205017 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack Infact scrub that you pedantic sod. It is known as the Union Jack no, it is known as the Union Flag, and if Scotland makes a massive mistake, the Soltire will be removed, and I hope the BMC will relinquish any medical qualifications, as will the bar council, HMRC can declare all "Scottish" companies to be bankrupt, all insurance north of the border becomes null and void, and my pesnsions and mortage with Bank Of Scotland become cancelled? it is a nonsense

Mable_Syrup wrote: Yep. You knew what I meant. I've only heard of it called the Union Jack. Learn something new every day. http://www.flaginstitute.org/wp/british ... nion-flag/ http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25205017 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_Jack Infact scrub that you pedantic sod. It is known as the Union Jack no, it is known as the Union Flag, and if Scotland makes a massive mistake, the Soltire will be removed, and I hope the BMC will relinquish any medical qualifications, as will the bar council, HMRC can declare all "Scottish" companies to be bankrupt, all insurance north of the border becomes null and void, and my pesnsions and mortage with Bank Of Scotland become cancelled? it is a nonsense

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:34 am  

Standee wrote:

no, it is known as the Union Flag, and if Scotland makes a massive mistake, the Soltire will be removed, and I hope the BMC will relinquish any medical qualifications, as will the bar council, HMRC can declare all "Scottish" companies to be bankrupt, all insurance north of the border becomes null and void, and my pesnsions and mortage with Bank Of Scotland become cancelled?

it is a nonsense

Just a small correction, the word is spelt s(a)ltire and the Scottish one is the oldest continuously used sovereign flag in the world (I'm sure you knew that anyway).

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:39 am  

WIZEB wrote:

Just a small correction, the word is spelt s(a)ltire and the Scottish one is the oldest continuously used sovereign flag in the world (I'm sure you knew that anyway).

nope, I didn't

but it does clarify the point

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:11 pm  

As far as I'm concerned it's the Union Flag, but becomes a Union Jack when flown on a ship.

There is actually no reason why the Union Flag should be changed as the Queen will remain Queen of England, Wales, N.I. and Scotland. The original flag was originally designed at the Union of the Crowns, and had nothing to do with political union, which didn't happen until at least a century later. The flag wasn't changed when Scotland came in, so logically it needn't be changed if they go back out.

To add to the complications, there has never been an official flag of Northern Ireland,and the saltire of St Patrick (the diagonal red cross) - was introduced into the design in 1801 to represent the whole of Ireland. The difficulty is that it was not altered on the creation of the Irish Free State in 1922. You could say as the Republic has never asked for it to be removed or changed, there's a precedent for the Scottish bit staying put.

If at some future point the Scots also opted out of the monarchy is the only time the issue would arise but they have no intention of doing that whoever wins so that's academic.

And there has never been a Flag Act so in fact the flag is as near as makes no difference unofficial. Nobody really has a clue who, if anyone, has any legal rights to it or to changing it. Although I would side with the College of Arms, which knows a bit about these things, and says that the flag is determined by the Crown, and was confirmed by an order of the Privy Council in 1800.

So it would again be basically up to Brenda. She's the closest thing there is to anyone having a formal say. And I can't imagine her wanting it changed.

Then you have the miniature Union Flag which forms part of the flags of several other countries - what would happen to those?

One final oddity - if they vote Yes but the Scottish saltire stays in, then the only union country whose flag would be truly included is England since
a) Scotland would be included but would have left the UK
b) NI doesn't have a flag, and the all-Ireland saltire isn't therefore them; and
c) there is no Welsh flag element at all in the design.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 4:42 pm  

Whilst we are getting slightly trivial, here's a couple of sporting questions brought up by this independence vote...

...1. Will there be no more Golfing British Open's at St Andrew's and the other Scottish courses??..... Would seem a bit odd not playing at the home of Golf any more, but surely you couldn't have a 'British' Open in a foreign country?

2. Scottish sportsmen would not be able to compete at the 2016 Olympics. New countries have to apply for membership of the Olympic movement and most applications take upto 4 years.... Andy Murray would be grumpier than normal if he isn't allowed to defend his title?....

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:30 pm  

LeagueDweeb wrote:

I think you are rather over estimating what Salmond has actually said or promised. Scotland keeping the £ doesn't equate to a bail out in any way.

There would be nothing preventing the BBC operating as a commercial television station & collecting subscriptions in Scotland.

Embassies? Reciprocal agreements with any countries they want them in?

DVLA? That would be a huge money spinner for them. Civil Service requirements would be what, set against what they have now?

Croatia is a similar sized country population wise to Scotland. It has a shipbuilding industry the Scots have the capability for on the Clyde. It seems to be doing quite well following accession to the EU, which has pumped in some £18bn into the country.

I think others have answered your points rather well. I hope you now get it.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:44 pm  

LeagueDweeb wrote:

Krugman is recently quoted as saying keeping the £ would create economic insecurity for Scotland. he really can't make his mind up can he?

I don't understand the obsession with American economists as point provers.

Krugman has made it very clear the huge risks that Scotland will face if it becomes independent he says that either they will have combination of political independence with a shared currency which is a recipe for disaster - the recent history for countries like Spain in the Euro have proven that.

Or they will do a 'banana republic' and use the pound but without the backing of the BOE. This has the very real dangers that they will simply run out of money and require a bail out ....but as I said from whom? As Krugman said " Be afraid, be very afraid"

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:59 pm  

Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:

The vote, which Cameron agreed to allow place, was only given to the current residents of Scotland.

So English people resident in Scotland are allowed to vote on independence, but Scottish people living in England won't be.

The "cut off your nose to spite your face" decision would be to say that Scots born English residents are no longer UK residents or EU members so they're not allowed to live or work in the UK (or EU).

But that decision will be sheer lunacy from Cameron seeing as the Scottish born residents of England were given absolutely no say in the vote.

Asking the Queen. So now you're a royalist? One of the earliest decisions an independent Scotland should make is becoming a republic and rejecting the BS of having a royal family.

The argument that the 800,000 Scots living outside Scotland should allowed to vote was opposed by the Salmond led Scottish Government.

So it would appear that not only have you not listened to Salmond but you have not listened to Cameron either! No wonder you are confused.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:07 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

I'd kind of guessed that, but there would still be a Day 1 of independence

Day 1 of independence will only be after the period of negotiation which Salmond is stating will only take 18 months. Once again he is likely to have underestimated this timescale

Re: Scottish Referendum : Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:17 pm  

Of the many items to be negotiated if Scotland votes for independence there will be the what happens to the Scottish assets of the Crown Estate (technically the UK government) which owns huge estates and half the coastline and seabed in Scotland. Another issue would be what the UK would charge to allow the use of the intellectual rights and software for all the government departments, NHS, tax, pensions etc