Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

As you suggest, the "story" that has been fed to us is that "there IS sufficient PPE to go round"

I can tell you unequivocally, without any exaggeration and straight from the front line, that this is simply not true. My services were meant to receive an initial allocation of PPE - about half did - the other half didn't, and still haven't. There is an NHS procurement helpline we're supposed to call - it either rings out, or they don't have the equipment to send us - and we are, on a per location basis, looking for fairly modest amounts. It's an absolute joke.

We've solved it ourselves in the end, but at approximately 4 times the usual cost.

Re testing - the DHSC has finally rolled out a pilot of testing sites for SC staff; the roll out happened over Easter Weekend, and I got emails for all 72 of my sites - most of which were directing my staff in say, Nottingham, to go to a testing site in Gateshead - and only under some very prescriptive and complex circumstances. I managed to unpick it this morning and instructed local Managers to book people in for tests - all have thus far been unable to, due to lack of availability.

We are being failed; and as a result, the most vulnerable people in society are being put at extreme risk.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:30 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I can tell you unequivocally, without any exaggeration and straight from the front line, that this is simply not true. My services were meant to receive an initial allocation of PPE - about half did - the other half didn't, and still haven't. There is an NHS procurement helpline we're supposed to call - it either rings out, or they don't have the equipment to send us - and we are, on a per location basis, looking for fairly modest amounts. It's an absolute joke.

We've solved it ourselves in the end, but at approximately 4 times the usual cost.

Re testing - the DHSC has finally rolled out a pilot of testing sites for SC staff; the roll out happened over Easter Weekend, and I got emails for all 72 of my sites - most of which were directing my staff in say, Nottingham, to go to a testing site in Gateshead - and only under some very prescriptive and complex circumstances. I managed to unpick it this morning and instructed local Managers to book people in for tests - all have thus far been unable to, due to lack of availability.

We are being failed; and as a result, the most vulnerable people in society are being put at extreme risk.

Bren, as you know, I was trying to reply to Cronus and I used the words "story" and "fed" quite deliberately and as I suggested, there is a world of difference in having stock in a warehouse and needing to use something "on the front line".
It's like the supermarkets telling us that there wasn't a supply issue with toilet roll but, if you cant buy it and you have none, there is a problem.
Granted the PPE issue is way more serious and the true colours shine through quite clearly, when Tory ministers blame the nurses and other frontline staff for not using it properly.
You would think that given their leader has received excellent care and says that these same people saved his life that, the Tory ministers may be just a little more honest and admit the supply line problems but, not a bloody chance.

Btw, how are you supposed to get your staff to Gateshead for testing ??

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:30 pm  

bren2k wrote:

I can tell you unequivocally, without any exaggeration and straight from the front line, that this is simply not true. My services were meant to receive an initial allocation of PPE - about half did - the other half didn't, and still haven't. There is an NHS procurement helpline we're supposed to call - it either rings out, or they don't have the equipment to send us - and we are, on a per location basis, looking for fairly modest amounts. It's an absolute joke.

We've solved it ourselves in the end, but at approximately 4 times the usual cost.

Re testing - the DHSC has finally rolled out a pilot of testing sites for SC staff; the roll out happened over Easter Weekend, and I got emails for all 72 of my sites - most of which were directing my staff in say, Nottingham, to go to a testing site in Gateshead - and only under some very prescriptive and complex circumstances. I managed to unpick it this morning and instructed local Managers to book people in for tests - all have thus far been unable to, due to lack of availability.

We are being failed; and as a result, the most vulnerable people in society are being put at extreme risk.

As a private business surely it your responsibility to your employees to provide them with PPE? If you have failed to do so surely that is failing at your end and there is nobody else to blame but the procurement team within your organisation? I have watched plenty of medical professionals on the morning news and despite prompting from the likes of Piers and Naga it is a while since you have heard any say they don't have enough ventilators or PPE - how many items have actually been delivered in the last month 700m+? Much to the disappointment of both

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:24 pm  

https://www.indy100.com/article/mps-vot ... st-9462946

https://www.indy100.com/article/mps-vot ... st-9462946

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:04 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As a private business surely it your responsibility to your employees to provide them with PPE? If you have failed to do so surely that is failing at your end and there is nobody else to blame but the procurement team within your organisation? I have watched plenty of medical professionals on the morning news and despite prompting from the likes of Piers and Naga it is a while since you have heard any say they don't have enough ventilators or PPE - how many items have actually been delivered in the last month 700m+? Much to the disappointment of both

You quite deliberately ignored the part where I said that we have solved it ourselves, at considerable cost.

The point however, is that of course we have always had rolling stock of PPE and trusted suppliers; when this thing blew up, we were told by the Govt that every location would receive an allocation of PPE from central stock, in acknowledgment of the fact that they had requisitioned the majority of stock in the UK. Most of my locations never got that allocation, and have been unable to use the emergency procurement line - so there has been a lag in supply, which has probably resulted in way more infections in our settings and in elderly services.

WC - re testing - they are quite specifically only permitted to drive themselves, or be transported there by a member of their household; so if there is no driver in the family, no test.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:19 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

As a private business surely it your responsibility to your employees to provide them with PPE? If you have failed to do so surely that is failing at your end and there is nobody else to blame but the procurement team within your organisation? I have watched plenty of medical professionals on the morning news and despite prompting from the likes of Piers and Naga it is a while since you have heard any say they don't have enough ventilators or PPE - how many items have actually been delivered in the last month 700m+? Much to the disappointment of both

My relative is quite high up in a business where supplying PPE was around 5/10% of his business.
You'll be unsurprised to learn that its far greater than that currently.
I had a conversation with him late last week.
He is receiving dozens of calls and emails daily direct from Hospitals and council chiefs, nurses, doctors, care workers private and public asking him to source varying PPE.
His supply line is limited and the manufacturers are rationing PPE delivery to each supplier and spreading it about as best they can.
Only last Thursday a head of a department in the local council enquired about obtaining Body Bags, and if he couldnt could he try and look for alternate equipment that will do the job (meeting certain standards to avoid contamination issues).

Some may be alright, some aren't

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:33 am  

The government’s sudden interest in looking after care workers is as a result of the bad press they are receiving. They are once again being reactive and even then they are only offering tests if needed not to all. They I believe have like all sectors closest to the virus tested 1000 care workers out of roughly 300,000.
The longer this goes on the government’s failures will continue to be highlighted be it testing or lack of PPE.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:56 am  

Scarlet Pimpernell wrote:

The government’s sudden interest in looking after care workers is as a result of the bad press they are receiving. They are once again being reactive and even then they are only offering tests if needed not to all. They I believe have like all sectors closest to the virus tested 1000 care workers out of roughly 300,000.
The longer this goes on the government’s failures will continue to be highlighted be it testing or lack of PPE.

The Government have done the right thing i.e. prioritise the NHS - they would have been slaughtered if they hadn't - care homes are private businesses that charge £20-30k a patient a year - surely it is their responsibility to provide their staff with the appropriate PPE?

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:00 am  

bren2k wrote:

You quite deliberately ignored the part where I said that we have solved it ourselves, at considerable cost.

The point however, is that of course we have always had rolling stock of PPE and trusted suppliers; when this thing blew up, we were told by the Govt that every location would receive an allocation of PPE from central stock, in acknowledgment of the fact that they had requisitioned the majority of stock in the UK. Most of my locations never got that allocation, and have been unable to use the emergency procurement line - so there has been a lag in supply, which has probably resulted in way more infections in our settings and in elderly services.

WC - re testing - they are quite specifically only permitted to drive themselves, or be transported there by a member of their household; so if there is no driver in the family, no test.

What is the average annual charge for a resident £20-30k - so how you can even consider looking at deflecting blame for your employees not having the correct PPE is typical of you and your politics.

Testing has been a major issue that the government has failed miserably to implement.

Re: PM in Intensive Care... : Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:08 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

What is the average annual charge for a resident £20-30k - so how you can even consider looking at deflecting blame for your employees not having the correct PPE is typical of you and your politics.

What the f**k are you talking about?

Sal Paradise wrote:

Testing has been a major issue that the government has failed miserably to implement.

Correct - and it remains so - and will look even worse when they utterly fail to get anywhere near Boris Johnson's solemn promise of 100k tests per day, the deadline for which was in 2 weeks time.