Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:32 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

So why were Labour elected to power instead of Heath then?

It's also a good bet that if Jim Callaghan hadn't "done a Gordon Brown" and gone to the electorate in 1978, he would've been returned, Thatcher would've been dumped by the Conservatives and "Thatcherism" would never have entered the English vocabulary

Labour got in because the electorate were sick of not being able to switch their lights on, working a three day week etc, Heath was also despised as a leader - if Thatcher had been the leader in 72 Wilson/Callaghan would never have got in power. In 79 the electorate showed what they thought of unions who had got too big for their boots.

Unions have never had quite the swagger since Thatcher crushed Arthur.

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:35 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Labour got in because the electorate were sick of not being able to switch their lights on, working a three day week etc, Heath was also despised as a leader - if Thatcher had been the leader in 72 Wilson/Callaghan would never have got in power. In 79 the electorate showed what they thought of unions who had got too big for their boots.

Unions have never had quite the swagger since Thatcher crushed Arthur.

And in the intervening years, wages have gone down in real terms, while the cost of living has risen by more than inflation – and those at the very top have just carried on getting richer and richer. And we have less job security too.

So everything worked out well ...

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:58 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Labour got in because the electorate were sick of not being able to switch their lights on, working a three day week etc, Heath was also despised as a leader - if Thatcher had been the leader in 72 Wilson/Callaghan would never have got in power. In 79 the electorate showed what they thought of unions who had got too big for their boots.

Unions have never had quite the swagger since Thatcher crushed Arthur.

The party traditionally associated with the Unions got in ... because the electorate, despite being sick of three-day weeks, decided not to blame the Unions and sacked Heath.

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:20 pm  

Mintball wrote:

That's okay – I got bored ages ago of you being an apologist for what anyone with a grain of morality/ethics can see has been happening and can see is wrong.

But this is risable: "inflation means things cost more now." Just for one, the cost of housing has not gone up, over the last 30 years, by the rate of inflation.

So you don't have any evidence to back up your claims but you still keep making them:

Mintball wrote:

And in the intervening years, wages have gone down in real terms, while the cost of living has risen by more than inflation

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Sat Dec 10, 2011 12:33 pm  

SBR wrote:

So you don't have any evidence to back up your claims but you still keep making them...

And you keep ignoring reality - not least that wages have not increased in line with the increasing cost of housing.

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Sat Dec 10, 2011 2:00 pm  

And here, especially for you, some reality: Using this, we can see some prices today. 2011 average prices Lancaster – terrace £120,420. In 1986, a two up, two down was around £14,500 (I know, because that’s what I was buying on a wage of £105 gross per week – £5,460 per annum. I lost it when made redundant and took a job at £60 gross per week – £3,120). Hackney – £304,638. There are one-bed flats down our road right now that, when built around four years ago, we put on the market for £250,000. Prices in our housing association block were £60K around 17 years ago. Selling now (if you've bought the rest) for around the price quoted in that survey – one sold for £365,000 around three years ago. These are 'two bed' – ie, one is a box room with just about room for a single bed, but nothing more. Being what used to be regarded as sensible, you need an annual income (let's allow for it to be a combined income) of over £105K. The mean income in London is £29,947. The mean income in the north west is £20,483. (Data here) Smith Institute: “The affordability of owner-occupation has deteriorated over the long term. Average house price increases outstripped average earnings from 1970 to 2000 in all areas of the UK except Scotland. Since 1980 the incomes of higher earners have risen faster than those of others, leading to greater pressure on those at the margins of home ownership. There has been a long-term drop in the proportion and numbers of first-time buyers (FTBs) and a decline in the rates of owner-occupation among younger age groups since the late 1980s.” (p11) Report here (pdf) Chart showing growth in house prices v growth in pay from 1998 to 2010.

And here, especially for you, some reality: Using this, we can see some prices today. 2011 average prices Lancaster – terrace £120,420. In 1986, a two up, two down was around £14,500 (I know, because that’s what I was buying on a wage of £105 gross per week – £5,460 per annum. I lost it when made redundant and took a job at £60 gross per week – £3,120). Hackney – £304,638. There are one-bed flats down our road right now that, when built around four years ago, we put on the market for £250,000. Prices in our housing association block were £60K around 17 years ago. Selling now (if you've bought the rest) for around the price quoted in that survey – one sold for £365,000 around three years ago. These are 'two bed' – ie, one is a box room with just about room for a single bed, but nothing more. Being what used to be regarded as sensible, you need an annual income (let's allow for it to be a combined income) of over £105K. The mean income in London is £29,947. The mean income in the north west is £20,483. (Data here) Smith Institute: “The affordability of owner-occupation has deteriorated over the long term. Average house price increases outstripped average earnings from 1970 to 2000 in all areas of the UK except Scotland. Since 1980 the incomes of higher earners have risen faster than those of others, leading to greater pressure on those at the margins of home ownership. There has been a long-term drop in the proportion and numbers of first-time buyers (FTBs) and a decline in the rates of owner-occupation among younger age groups since the late 1980s.” (p11) Report here (pdf) Chart showing growth in house prices v growth in pay from 1998 to 2010.

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:54 am  

SBR?

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:59 am  

Mintball, since 1971 the UK's share of global GDP has more than halved. Whilst the global economy has grown our relative share of wealth has declined. Not surprising therefore that there has been a real terms fall in wages. A trend that will sprred up over the coming years.

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:00 am  

Mintball wrote:

SBR?

fx>"Snitch Mode" "On"< His homework's late, give him detention Ma'am! <fx "Snitch Mode" "Off">

Re: Bloody Trades Unions ballsing it up again : Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:17 am  

Sandra The Terrorist wrote:

Mintball wrote:

SBR?

fx>"Snitch Mode" "On"< His homework's late, give him detention Ma'am! <fx "Snitch Mode" "Off">

Are you confusing yourself with Horatio Yed?