Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:36 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

He has no chance in my view - he will get all the Tories except possibly Grieve - if the other side want the deal to go through then they need to put up and vote. The protestants are a minority in Ireland and sooner or later it will become one Catholic run state - the breeding numbers alone for tell the future.

When you say "all the Tories", are you including those who currently have had the whip removed.
Those 21 MP's who Boris (or Cummings) decided to "sack" would have been quite helpful now.
Maybe they will be "persuaded" to come back into the fold ?

Without them and the DUP, Boris hasn't got a hope in hell of getting his deal over the line - 0/7

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:05 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

When you say "all the Tories", are you including those who currently have had the whip removed.
Those 21 MP's who Boris (or Cummings) decided to "sack" would have been quite helpful now.
Maybe they will be "persuaded" to come back into the fold ?

Without them and the DUP, Boris hasn't got a hope in hell of getting his deal over the line - 0/7

The 21 will come across the likes of Letwin have already said they will support the deal - he will can all the Tory support including the ERG but he needs 10 Labour MPs to support - not sure he has that yet. Plenty have shown a willing to defy Corbyn in the past - let's see.

If Labour block it it is suicide on their part.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:16 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

The 21 will come across the likes of Letwin have already said they will support the deal - he will can all the Tory support including the ERG but he needs 10 Labour MPs to support - not sure he has that yet. Plenty have shown a willing to defy Corbyn in the past - let's see.

If Labour block it it is suicide on their part.

If Labour allow it through, they're done for a few years - they have to find a way to prevent Boris's deal, either with a GE, which I believe at the moment hey would lose or, with a "peoples vote" which if it went against the government COULD benefit Labour. Having said that, there could be huge difficulties if there was and kind of "win" for "remain" - I predict a riot.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:24 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

If Labour allow it through, they're done for a few years - they have to find a way to prevent Boris's deal, either with a GE, which I believe at the moment hey would lose or, with a "peoples vote" which if it went against the government COULD benefit Labour. Having said that, there could be huge difficulties if there was and kind of "win" for "remain" - I predict a riot.

Labour are done as long as Lansman runs the party and he fronts it with his puppets Corbyn & McDonald - a further vote simply undermines the previous vote and there isn't a ground swell of public opinion demanding another vote - only remainers who hated losing the last time. I don't see a lot of leavers saying we got it wrong give us another go.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:41 am  

The success of this vote depends on whether the nutter wing of the Tory party votes for it. those expelled members mostly probably will because they've always voted for Brexit, no matter what lies some believe.
I suspect it will get through with a bit of Labour support. The subsequent election will be fascinating. Johnson appears to think he'll win because he got it done. But once we get back onto domestic policies the Tory appeal to many working class Brexiteers may fall away. Although Labour have not exactly got an appealing leadership for them to return to.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:44 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

He has no chance in my view - he will get all the Tories except possibly Grieve - if the other side want the deal to go through then they need to put up and vote. The protestants are a minority in Ireland and sooner or later it will become one Catholic run state - the breeding numbers alone for tell the future.

Hopefully it will be a democratic Socialist run Republican state with organised religion confined to hell where it belongs.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 11:49 am  

tigertot wrote:

Hopefully it will be a democratic Socialist run Republican state with organised religion confined to hell where it belongs.

Could not agree more - sadly the reality will end up being something different, religion has a lot to answer for

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:02 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

The success of this vote depends on whether the nutter wing of the Tory party votes for it. those expelled members mostly probably will because they've always voted for Brexit, no matter what lies some believe.
I suspect it will get through with a bit of Labour support. The subsequent election will be fascinating. Johnson appears to think he'll win because he got it done. But once we get back onto domestic policies the Tory appeal to many working class Brexiteers may fall away. Although Labour have not exactly got an appealing leadership for them to return to.

I agree - I think Boris will win comfortably because Labour "everything for everybody" policies are simply not achievable and Corbyn is not liked or trusted in the country. His supporter base is amongst the young and impressionable hence why he wants the voting age reduced to 16. There lack of leadership on Brexit is one example of why they are unelectable.

As I mentioned above why do Labour think we need the EU to protect labour/environmental standards surely this is something that we should control and as such a Labour government would be able now to do their own thing.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:07 pm  

Sal Paradise wrote:

Could not agree more - sadly the reality will end up being something different, religion has a lot to answer for

I've just done a bit of reading on socio-political-religious trends in NI - it's quite interesting. The number of people identifying as no religion, the proportion of Catholics in work, the number of Protestants who leave not to return, the number of Catholics 'attracted' to the union (UK) are all growing. Even though the number identifying as Catholic in NI might be in the majority in the next 10 years that doesn't translate into an obvious majority to leave the UK.

Re: Boris Johnson : Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:09 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

The success of this vote depends on whether the nutter wing of the Tory party votes for it. those expelled members mostly probably will because they've always voted for Brexit, no matter what lies some believe.
I suspect it will get through with a bit of Labour support. The subsequent election will be fascinating. Johnson appears to think he'll win because he got it done. But once we get back onto domestic policies the Tory appeal to many working class Brexiteers may fall away. Although Labour have not exactly got an appealing leadership for them to return to.

Labour, right now are screwed and assuming that Brexit happens (I'm not convinced), the Tories, with the Brexit party surplus to requirements, will very likely gain an overall majority.
They have stolen a march on Labour with their (wild) spending promises on the NHS and Police and are most likely to be the largest party in Westminster.
Labour "may" be able to do a deal with the SNP to sneak into power but, they are all over the place with their messaging and IMO have been for some little while.