Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:07 pm  

Him wrote:

That is generally fair. Of course there are issues in the system with "good" schools and "poor" schools, but in general it's ok.

The problem comes when that system is circumvented by a small minority who receive "better" education and far, far more opportunities.

"Good" schools and "poor" schools are usually nothing of the sort - they are (usually) just a reflection of the intake / catchment area. My children went to a so called "beacon" primary school. The reality was it was not a patch in organisational, etc terms on the old one that my son originally attended in London. The beacon school just happened to be located in one of the most affluent towns on the country whereas the former school in a not very affluent part of the country. Transfer the latter school to the former's location and it would result in chaos and failing school status!

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:59 pm  

Dally wrote:

"Good" schools and "poor" schools are usually nothing of the sort - they are (usually) just a reflection of the intake / catchment area. My children went to a so called "beacon" primary school. The reality was it was not a patch in organisational, etc terms on the old one that my son originally attended in London. The beacon school just happened to be located in one of the most affluent towns on the country whereas the former school in a not very affluent part of the country. Transfer the latter school to the former's location and it would result in chaos and failing school status!

Agreed intake plays a large part but there are undoubtably some schools that are better run or have better teachers than others. But either way that wasn't the point. The point was that the relatively fair system can be circumvented by those with money.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:45 pm  

Dally wrote:

School kids pay tuition fees do they?

There are not many young adults in school at 19.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:47 pm  

Mintball wrote:

There are not many young adults in school at 19.

I believe everyone has a right to 3 years in the 6th form if they wish.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:48 pm  

Him wrote:

... The problem comes when that system is circumvented by a small minority who receive "better" education and far, far more opportunities.

Slight diversion, but if you're meaning (in part at least) private education, then personally I've seen nothing to suggest that it's better than a good state education.

What it does give people – ever fairly thick people – is a sense of confidence in the rightness of their getting the best jobs and even being born to govern.

I've worked with people educated at public school (and have two uncles who were – and subsequently wrecked a successful business and helped get rid of a load of the inheritance dosh) and it really is little more than that.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:48 pm  

Dally wrote:

I believe everyone has a right to 3 years in the 6th form if they wish.

Three is it now to get one's A levels?

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:50 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Three is it now to get one's A levels?

Depends on one's aptitude.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 13, 2013 9:49 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Slight diversion, but if you're meaning (in part at least) private education, then personally I've seen nothing to suggest that it's better than a good state education.

What it does give people – ever fairly thick people – is a sense of confidence in the rightness of their getting the best jobs and even being born to govern.

I've worked with people educated at public school (and have two uncles who were – and subsequently wrecked a successful business and helped get rid of a load of the inheritance dosh) and it really is little more than that.

Yep I did mean private education. I'd agree which is why I put better in quotation marks as there are sadly plenty of people and organisations who assume a private education is better than a public one.
From my albeit limited knowledge the biggest advantage in pure educational terms comes from the smaller class sizes. Which if replicated at state schools would yield similar results.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Wed Aug 14, 2013 7:28 am  

If private education is better than state-provided education, then it is promoting unequal opportunity.
If private education is not better than state-provided education, then it is pointless, except for the sort of reasons that Mintball has already outlined, to which I would add that, for many, it's a form of social climbing and class-reinforcement so that their children don't have to meet those awful working-class children.

My guess is that it's a bit of both, with some schools actually getting the pick of the crop of teachers.

It's socially divisive, it reinforces class prejudice (both directions) and it's either unfair or no better than state education.
The notion that if one is born into a family that can afford it then one is just lucky is, to me, waffle, there are plenty of talented but less well-off children missing out, that's a waste of talent.

I'd ban it and to hell with the wailing of the already-privileged.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:44 pm  

The main issue is when you pay for your kids to go to e.g. Etonyou are not only paying for the education, which could be just as good at the local state school, but also, more importantly, the old boy network.

Personally I would like to see private education banned. If the rich had to send their kids to the same schools as the rest of us then maybe they might be more willing to cough up their taxes.