Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:35 am  

Nothus wrote:

I can't stop thinking about this, and the poor people on board. It might seem a little morbid, and I apologise if I offend anyone, but I can't help wondering about the moment of impact, what went through the minds of the passengers, and if any of them would have been unfortunate enough to still be conscious as they fell to earth. It's a horrifying thought, and one I'm struggling to get out of my mind.

I think that's just the natural curiosity of the human brain, I occas find myself watching a YouTube video of the 9/11 attacks, not because It's enjoyable, just because of the "holy sh*t" factor.

This whole mess was triggered by a US/EU-backed overthrow of an elected government, don't forget...

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:38 am  

cod'ead wrote:

don't have nightmares

Jill Dando used to say the same.

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:36 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

Jill Dando used to say the same.

wasn't it Nick Ross rather than Jill Dando?

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:06 pm  

Nothus wrote:

I can't stop thinking about this, and the poor people on board. It might seem a little morbid, and I apologise if I offend anyone, but I can't help wondering about the moment of impact, what went through the minds of the passengers, and if any of them would have been unfortunate enough to still be conscious as they fell to earth. It's a horrifying thought, and one I'm struggling to get out of my mind.

Do a google search for explosive decompression in an aircraft, there are some very good science papers on the subject specifically related to high altitude flying but basically the sort of catastrophic damage that will be caused by a missile means that by the time your brain has registered that something is wrong you'll be unconcious and then dead vety quickly afterwards - survival at just 25000 feet is estimated at 4 to 7 seconds in explosive decompression (loss of all artifical pressurisation with half a second) and the effect increases rapidly above that.

The whole "put your oxygen mask on" routine only works with a gradual loss such as a window fracture, any reports from autopsies on previous explosions that suggest that victims could be concious throughout just dont ring true when a body cannot survive in minus 60 degrees, sudden low pressure bloating every pocket of air in your body and oxygen saturation way below anything like necessary - by the time you can say "what the fook..." you'll be gone and if not then hypoxia can be a pleasant way to go - apparently.

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Tue Jul 22, 2014 9:34 pm  

Thanks for that JerryChicken.

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Tue Jul 22, 2014 10:41 pm  

Yet there are documented cases of wheel well stowaways who have survived flights of several hours at the relevant temperatures and pressures. I appreciate there is no "explosive" decompression but nobody seems to explain how these survivors survive the apparently impossible

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Wed Jul 23, 2014 3:26 am  

That's due to the speed of the event though - what Jerry's talking about would give the body no chance at all to adjust/go into some kind of survival mode, which may be possible when someone is flown up to such an altitude.

If you're going to die in an air disaster, explosive decompression at altitude is by far the best option - I still regret watching one of those air disaster documentaries on a Japanese crash where everybody was well aware of what was going to happen and many wrote notes to loved ones in the time they had left. I am reasonably sure I would be far too busy literally sh*tting myself to be able to think of anything except terror.

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Wed Jul 23, 2014 7:30 am  

Him wrote:

Whilst a little OT this makes me think of the space shuttle disasters. I think it was both (can't remember for certain if it was both, but definitely one of them) Discovery & Columbia where they think the crew were still alive and conscious when they hit the ground.

Was looking this up on Wikipedia (yes, I know ) after watching a documentary about the early space age. Its thought that the crew of Challenger were alive but unconscious when the cabin hit the water. Columbia disintegrated and rapid depressurization effectively killed the crew before they were torn apart.

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:39 am  

Standee wrote:

wasn't it Nick Ross rather than Jill Dando?

I believe it was generally a Ross quotation, but you understand, I have no doubt, the tenuous link one was alluding too.

Re: Malaysia Airlines place vanishes. : Wed Jul 23, 2014 8:55 am  

Do any of you buy into the conspiracy theories around this one? I watched a video a mate sent me yesterday and there are quite a few 'oh, didn't think of that' moments, although I don't for one moment believe it's made up to frame Russia and get the world to support a sanctions-based war with them. The conspiracy theorists are very good though, I think they need to take on a career in hollywood.

Their first claim of proof of a cover up is the video footage of the passports. The very first video screened in the US (Apart from the smoke plumes) was of a guy showing the camera passports, flicking them open and showing the names. Pristine passports from about 20 passengers. Passports from people confirmed to be on the plane and at different ends according to the seat plan. Yet this guy had found them within 40 minutes of the crash, despite the wreckage being strewn over 8 miles. Another interesting aspect they claimed was that several of the passports he'd found were clipped, i.e had expired and could no longer be used.

Another thing they pulled up was news reporters talking about decomposing bodies and how some of the bodies weren't fresh when they were found. I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between charred and decomposing, but they seem convinced.

Yet another 'proof' was the video footage of the missile system with the one missing missile. They claim they shot a transport plane down the previous week, so if they had shot down MH17, there would now be 2 missing missiles. It had started to get a little silly by this point.