Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:05 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

Would anyone really opt out ?

Well the problem would be public goods like street lighting, where you can't exclude people from using them, so everyone has an incentive to 'opt out' and rely on the fact other people would opt in and they could free ride on them.

But yes your point is a very valid one and the idea of pay-per-mile on roads is usually one that the advocates of small-state privatise everything balk at, if you suggest that it wasn't the state's responsibility to provide for roads but that they should be sold off to private owners that can then reserve the right to charge what they want (based on market demand) for people to drive on them. That would also result in the most efficient allocation of cars on the road as people would naturally avoid roads that were in high demand as they would have expensive tolls, and look for alternative routes. But the advocates of privatise everything hate the idea that they might have to pay to use things they expect to be provided for free.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:30 am  

sally cinnamon wrote:

But yes your point is a very valid one and the idea of pay-per-mile on roads is usually one that the advocates of small-state privatise everything balk at, if you suggest that it wasn't the state's responsibility to provide for roads but that they should be sold off to private owners that can then reserve the right to charge what they want (based on market demand) for people to drive on them. That would also result in the most efficient allocation of cars on the road as people would naturally avoid roads that were in high demand as they would have expensive tolls, and look for alternative routes. But the advocates of privatise everything hate the idea that they might have to pay to use things they expect to be provided for free.

I'm just curious as to the reaction of those who promote free enterprise above state intrusion and exactly where they draw the line between individual responsibility and the state responsibility.

I'm pretty sure that if you could cost the NHS contribution as a percentage of the basic rate tax and then offer that percentage as a credit to individuals on the proviso that they take out private medical health insurance instead and that if they ever turn up at an NHS hospital its on the basis that they produce their documents and get charged for treatment, then I think a lot of people would actually consider that to be a viable option.

I don't, not for one minute, but I'll bet that many people would, they would be mainly in the 18-40 age group, the ones who could get private health insurance for a reasonable rate but I'll bet that within that age group there are a lot of disgruntled individuals who object to paying for something that they perceive as a waste of public money - pensions is another huge minefield where an opt-out from NIS would be of huge interest to the same age group.

Of course when you're in your twenties you never dream that the private health provider of choice may one day refuse to renew your premium for any reason whatsoever, or may double your premium just because you're 45 this year, or may, as I've seen happen in America, only pay for a limited amount of treatment - the example I saw quoted by someone who was selling a mobile home to raise funds was of a cancer sufferer who's insurer had paid for 12 months of treatment and then no more, if they can cure you in 12 months then you're laughing, if not you die.

Thats where the individual freedom to purchase social care falls flat on its face.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 9:56 am  

I think a really fun one to consider would be whether or not one could opt in – or out – of 'defence'.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:32 am  

Mintball wrote:

I think a really fun one to consider would be whether or not one could opt in – or out – of 'defence'.

My Nigerian neighbour says he's staying firmly on his side of de fence

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:46 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

My Nigerian neighbour says he's staying firmly on his side of de fence

The writers and producers of Mind Your Language ask that you desist from reproducing their material in a public forum.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:37 pm  

Meanwhile, over at 38 degrees they have voted on what they want to do next about the NHS billl. They are trying to force a Commons debate on whether to scrap it and there's a petition calling for that. At present it's up to 60,000 names on it and if/when it gets to 100,000 names it can force the debate as HM Gov says any petition of 100,000 means a debate happens. Petition is here ---> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22670

Meanwhile, over at 38 degrees they have voted on what they want to do next about the NHS billl. They are trying to force a Commons debate on whether to scrap it and there's a petition calling for that. At present it's up to 60,000 names on it and if/when it gets to 100,000 names it can force the debate as HM Gov says any petition of 100,000 means a debate happens. Petition is here ---> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22670

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 2:54 pm  

El Barbudo wrote: Meanwhile, over at 38 degrees they have voted on what they want to do next about the NHS billl. They are trying to force a Commons debate on whether to scrap it and there's a petition calling for that. At present it's up to 60,000 names on it and if/when it gets to 100,000 names it can force the debate as HM Gov says any petition of 100,000 means a debate happens. Petition is here ---> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22670 does this constitute a mass debate then ?

El Barbudo wrote: Meanwhile, over at 38 degrees they have voted on what they want to do next about the NHS billl. They are trying to force a Commons debate on whether to scrap it and there's a petition calling for that. At present it's up to 60,000 names on it and if/when it gets to 100,000 names it can force the debate as HM Gov says any petition of 100,000 means a debate happens. Petition is here ---> http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/22670 does this constitute a mass debate then ?

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:00 pm  

sanjunien wrote:

does this constitute a mass debate then ?

The Commons is largely populated by mass debaters, so yes.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 5:26 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

The writers and producers of Mind Your Language ask that you desist from reproducing their material in a public forum.

Far earlier than that young Gilder. It was probably written by one of: Bill Oddie, Tim Brooke-Taylor, Frank Muir, Denis Norden, Barry Cryer, Marty Feldman, Ronnie Barker, Ronnie Corbett, Dick Vosburgh, Anthony Jay, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Eric Idle, Terry Jones or Michael Palin.

Or possibly some lesser-known writer of The Frost Report

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:26 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Far earlier than that young Gilder. It was probably written by one of: Bill Oddie, Tim Brooke-Taylor, Frank Muir, Denis Norden, Barry Cryer, Marty Feldman, Ronnie Barker, Ronnie Corbett, Dick Vosburgh, Anthony Jay, Graham Chapman, John Cleese, Eric Idle, Terry Jones or Michael Palin.

Or possibly some lesser-known writer of The Frost Report

many of the above of course greatly influenced by Peter Cook