Re: Zero hours contracts : Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:17 am  

JerryChicken wrote: You've possibly picked a bad example as pencil manufacturing for one of the worlds best known brands is Derwent, still manufactured in Cumbria - unfortunately their web site seems to have gone tits up at the moment so I can't check that their manufacturing facility is still based in Cumbria Yup, still made there ... http://www.pencils.co.uk/

JerryChicken wrote: You've possibly picked a bad example as pencil manufacturing for one of the worlds best known brands is Derwent, still manufactured in Cumbria - unfortunately their web site seems to have gone tits up at the moment so I can't check that their manufacturing facility is still based in Cumbria Yup, still made there ... http://www.pencils.co.uk/

Re: Zero hours contracts : Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:24 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

You've possibly picked a bad example as pencil manufacturing for one of the worlds best known brands is Derwent, still manufactured in Cumbria - unfortunately their web site seems to have gone tits up at the moment so I can't check that their manufacturing facility is still based in Cumbria

Far from being bad, I think it's a great example.

What would be interesting is to compare the two companies in terms of:

Scope of supply

Ownership

Profitability

Number of employees

etc

[DaveO]

Re: Zero hours contracts : Fri Aug 16, 2013 3:14 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

You've possibly picked a bad example as pencil manufacturing for one of the worlds best known brands is Derwent, still manufactured in Cumbria - unfortunately their web site seems to have gone tits up at the moment so I can't check that their manufacturing facility is still based in Cumbria

Believe it or not we actually parked in the "pencil museum" car park when stopping off in Cumbria on the way back from a trip to Edinburgh. I got the impression manufacturing wasn't a big operation and it would be interesting to compare the two operations, here and Germany.

One thing I am always reminded of when discussions like this arise is the old "Trouble Shooter" program Sir John Harvey Jones (ex ICI boss) used to front.

One of the companies he went to see was a Chinaware manufacturer in Stoke. They were determined to be listed on the stock exchange. Jones advised against it. They were listed and to cut a long story short the only things left in the UK when he returned later were a design and sales office. All manufacturing had gone to the far east. They were once a UK equivalent of a "Mittelstand" company but once that ceased so did the UK manufacturing jobs.

As a general thread related point "Mittelstand" just goes to show what a pile of nonsense zero hours contracts are IMO.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:15 pm  

DaveO wrote:

Believe it or not we actually parked in the "pencil museum" car park when stopping off in Cumbria on the way back from a trip to Edinburgh. I got the impression manufacturing wasn't a big operation and it would be interesting to compare the two operations, here and Germany.

cod'ead wrote:

Far from being bad, I think it's a great example.

What would be interesting is to compare the two companies in terms of:

Scope of supply

Ownership

Profitability

Number of employees

etc

As a brand its known worldwide but the interesting thing about comparing the two web sites (above) and also the manufacturer Staedtler (also German) is that of those three world renown brands only Derwent don't produce anything for the technical design market, other than a simple pencil of course - both Faber and Staedtler have always specialised in tools for architects & other design trades whereas Derwent is pure art focused.

I haven't been to the pencil museum in Keswick (although I suspect that I have supported it financially over the years) but looking at the main company web site their production facility seems of a decent size and they do state that their pencils are manufactured in the UK, and there is a huge range, plus their paper products which from memory I can't recall Faber or Staedtler being involved with.

Actually I correct myself there, I do have an A3 pad of Staedtler ink sketching paper of a type that I have never seen before in art shops but was given to me by an architect friend who uses it quite extensively (he is an old fashioned architect who STILL draws by hand, his practice is getting to be like a museum for architects these days).

Re: Zero hours contracts : Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:58 pm  

Peckerwood wrote:

How the love did we go from discussing the morals of zero hours contracts, to the quality of education in private and state schools?

Damn those conversations for not sticking to an absolutely specific subject.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:00 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

You've possibly picked a bad example as pencil manufacturing for one of the worlds best known brands is Derwent, still manufactured in Cumbria - unfortunately their web site seems to have gone tits up at the moment so I can't check that their manufacturing facility is still based in Cumbria

Funny you should mention that: I'm just talking to an artist down here (south of France) about using social media better in order to forward a commercial operation. The internet stuff is still being ignored or, at best, done badly by some.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:09 am  

Mintball wrote:

Funny you should mention that: I'm just talking to an artist down here (south of France) about using social media better in order to forward a commercial operation. The internet stuff is still being ignored or, at best, done badly by some.

You should refer him to Mick Oxley and the band of businesses in his village and district that Tweet and FB constantly to promote themselves - thats the way to do it.

If you want to show him other examples I have favourited (is that a word) a lot of professional artists FB sites and Groups that he can join, if he has a smartphone then he can post "on the easel" type posts once a day with one minute to spare

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:15 pm  

JerryChicken wrote:

As a brand its known worldwide but the interesting thing about comparing the two web sites (above) and also the manufacturer Staedtler (also German) is that of those three world renown brands only Derwent don't produce anything for the technical design market, other than a simple pencil of course - both Faber and Staedtler have always specialised in tools for architects & other design trades whereas Derwent is pure art focused.

I haven't been to the pencil museum in Keswick (although I suspect that I have supported it financially over the years) but looking at the main company web site their production facility seems of a decent size and they do state that their pencils are manufactured in the UK, and there is a huge range, plus their paper products which from memory I can't recall Faber or Staedtler being involved with.

Actually I correct myself there, I do have an A3 pad of Staedtler ink sketching paper of a type that I have never seen before in art shops but was given to me by an architect friend who uses it quite extensively (he is an old fashioned architect who STILL draws by hand, his practice is getting to be like a museum for architects these days).

Derwent was a brand of the Cumberland Pencil Co. which was an old established but small manufacturer. In the mid 60's early 70's I worked for the Eagle Pencil Company which had several leading quality pencil brands such as 'Mirado' (trade) 'Turquoise' (technical) 'Graduate' & 'Verithin' (educational) I visited schools, colleges and local authorities in the north of England giving talks and demonstrating the various products to teachers and specifiers. If ever the name of 'Cumberland pencils' came up I would mention the 'Staedtler' take over in my best German accent which was enough to prick a hole in the comfy Lake District image they tried to float.

Eagle had a large pencil factory in Tottenham (purpose built in 1906) which was an amazing place with bespoke machines with very active pulleys, belts, cedarwood and laquer smells and noise over three floors. Here they made a range of pencils with 17 degrees from 6B to 9H (including and F) and were the leading supplier to schools (each with grosses of pencils each year) and the likes of Rolls Royce technical drawing offices. I think the factory relocated to Kings Lynn in the 90's. In the 60's Eagle bought out Hardmuths (German), Margros (paint and art products) and Venus Esterbrook-Papermate and rebranded the group as Berol It is still selling its brand leading products.

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:23 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

... If ever the name of 'Cumberland pencils' came up I would mention the 'Staedtler' take over in my best German accent which was enough to prick a hole in the comfy Lake District image they tried to float...

I'm not clear what this bit means.
Did Staedtler own Cumberland back then?

Re: Zero hours contracts : Tue Aug 20, 2013 4:40 pm  

Juan Cornetto wrote:

Derwent was a brand of the Cumberland Pencil Co. which was an old established but small manufacturer. In the mid 60's early 70's I worked for the Eagle Pencil Company which had several leading quality pencil brands such as 'Mirado' (trade) 'Turquoise' (technical) 'Graduate' & 'Verithin' (educational) I visited schools, colleges and local authorities in the north of England giving talks and demonstrating the various products to teachers and specifiers. If ever the name of 'Cumberland pencils' came up I would mention the 'Staedtler' take over in my best German accent which was enough to prick a hole in the comfy Lake District image they tried to float.

Eagle had a large pencil factory in Tottenham (purpose built in 1906) which was an amazing place with bespoke machines with very active pulleys, belts, cedarwood and laquer smells and noise over three floors. Here they made a range of pencils with 17 degrees from 6B to 9H (including and F) and were the leading supplier to schools (each with grosses of pencils each year) and the likes of Rolls Royce technical drawing offices. I think the factory relocated to Kings Lynn in the 90's. In the 60's Eagle bought out Hardmuths (German), Margros (paint and art products) and Venus Esterbrook-Papermate and rebranded the group as Berol It is still selling its brand leading products.

Great memories, there's nothing quite like taking a new pencil out of the box for the first time, better still if its one of those pencils that are just sticks of wood with no sharpened end yet, better even still if you have one of those old pencil sharpeners that clamp to a desk and mechanically grip the pencil while you turn a handle to sharpen it - the points you get on those are lethal

And there is a world of difference between a cheap pencil and a "good" one and you usually find that out when you try and sharpen it - its all trivial and silly I know but they are tools to me and a good one is like finding a good chisel that you never want to lose or lend to anyone.