Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:20 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

So, is this a help or hinderance, you haven't said ?
As I suggested, Thatchers ideal, was to allow the "market" to rule everything, which meant stepping aside and allowing overseas companies to buy buy into UK Plc.
Any country should have control over their utilities (just in case they fall out with others) but, we haven't given a damn about this or about our manufacturing base.
Sure, car manufacturing is doing really well but, it's foreign owned and in times of adversity, this leaves us vulnerable.

THE major worry for the UK is the Financial services sector and bearing in mind the huge amounts of European Monies that are processed over here, it wont be too long before this drifts across the Channel.

At least India is offering a trade deal.....................as long as we allow greater free movement of their 1 billion population towards the UK.
Mr Farage, you have so much to answer for

Given the multiple posts it seems the site is suffering some issues...

Governments (not just Thatcher) have sold us down the river, and I honestly don't see how we can recover. We need to stop spending money overseas, we need to stop access to the NHS if you weren't born in Britain (at the very least), we need to stop funding the B(iast)BC, there a lot of things we could do, we certainly shouldn't be looking at hosting a World Cup, Commonwealth Games or even regional tiddlywinks tournaments. Maybe it's time the Churches paid the same tax as everyone else, and Tesco, Amazon, Starbucks et al started paying some. If I fly abroad I pay a departure tax, why not an arrival tax.

Also, what happens to the E111 when we leave the EU?

[Bullseye]

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:17 am  

Hard to stop spending money overseas when as you say so much of it is foreign owned. Is there such thing as a British car company or a British train operating company? The new nuclear power plants are being built to a French design with Chinese money FFS. Much of the utilities are foreign owned. Big companies like Cadbury’s were bought by US Kraft. Unilever nearly bought out recently too. Thatcher and later Blair opened up so much to the market that it’s impossible to exclusively buy British.

Fact of the matter is that cutting free foreign access to the NHS would be a total drop in the ocean. Same goes for the BBC. Agree about sideshows like the Euros and Commonwealth Games.

Agree that companies like Amazon, Google etc should pay more tax. Seems also a bit odd to offer companies low tax opportunities in the likes of Gibraltar when it just screws our economy. What’s to gain? I suspect if we end up with Brexit without a deal with the EU people will soon realise the folly. Turning the UK into some low tax economy like Bermuda would mean a huge change to lives that nobody on the leave side mentioned in the referendum campaign.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:26 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Hard to stop spending money overseas when as you say so much of it is foreign owned. Is there such thing as a British car company or a British train operating company? The new nuclear power plants are being built to a French design with Chinese money FFS. Much of the utilities are foreign owned. Big companies like Cadbury’s were bought by US Kraft. Unilever nearly bought out recently too. Thatcher and later Blair opened up so much to the market that it’s impossible to exclusively buy British.

Fact of the matter is that cutting free foreign access to the NHS would be a total drop in the ocean. Same goes for the BBC. Agree about sideshows like the Euros and Commonwealth Games.

Agree that companies like Amazon, Google etc should pay more tax. Seems also a bit odd to offer companies low tax opportunities in the likes of Gibraltar when it just screws our economy. What’s to gain? I suspect if we end up with Brexit without a deal with the EU people will soon realise the folly. Turning the UK into some low tax economy like Bermuda would mean a huge change to lives that nobody on the leave side mentioned in the referendum campaign.

No disagreement from me, successive governments have put us in a corner, I fear it's too late to fix it

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:31 am  

Anyone still feeling confident about the outcome ?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:09 am  

I am. I have no worries at all.

What has changed in recent times that has concerned you so much to prompt you to re-ask the question?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:27 am  

Exiled down south wrote:

I am. I have no worries at all.

What has changed in recent times that has concerned you so much to prompt you to re-ask the question?

I think that most of what we hear in the press is political posturing, rather than information aimed at the general public.
Also, having just spent a few days in France, watching Trinity, the view from "the other side" seems a little different to that which we are being fed over here.
Personally, I feel that, with 27 other nations to negotiate with, all of whom have different hopes and expectations, the most likely outcome within the 2 year time frame, will be "no deal", which will leave many people significantly worse off.
Add to this the rhetoric coming out of India (saying we could have a trade deal in return for greater freedom of movement) and you begin to realise that the whole fiasco and deceit from the leave campaign (in relation to speedy trade deals with other nations) very likely to leave us in a worse place than we were within the EU.
I know that we will have control of our borders but, we also lose our own rights to free movement within the EU.
THere are issues to be resolved with regards to EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU plus, Scotland wanting out, a whole mess in Ireland, which could well get very, very messy so, yes, things appear more bleak than they were.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 1:09 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I think that most of what we hear in the press is political posturing, rather than information aimed at the general public.
Also, having just spent a few days in France, watching Trinity, the view from "the other side" seems a little different to that which we are being fed over here.
Personally, I feel that, with 27 other nations to negotiate with, all of whom have different hopes and expectations, the most likely outcome within the 2 year time frame, will be "no deal", which will leave many people significantly worse off.
Add to this the rhetoric coming out of India (saying we could have a trade deal in return for greater freedom of movement) and you begin to realise that the whole fiasco and deceit from the leave campaign (in relation to speedy trade deals with other nations) very likely to leave us in a worse place than we were within the EU.
I know that we will have control of our borders but, we also lose our own rights to free movement within the EU.
THere are issues to be resolved with regards to EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU plus, Scotland wanting out, a whole mess in Ireland, which could well get very, very messy so, yes, things appear more bleak than they were.

You say: "will be "no deal", which will leave many people significantly worse off." Which people, what number of them and how much worse off? Will others perhaps be better off or have you totally discounted that possibility? Where do you get this knowledge of the future from?

As to no deal - it may well hurt - but if we have duties both ways on EU trade then as we have a huge trade deficit with the EU, all things being equal our government will have a tax gain to help it pay for things. Currently a big chunk of our international trade is routed via Rotterdam. If we have no access to the single market, Rotterdam and Holland suffer but potentially our seaports gain. Maybe Liverpool and Bristol for example, West Cost ports that have been devastated by EU membership.?

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 2:15 pm  

Dally wrote:

You say: "will be "no deal", which will leave many people significantly worse off." Which people, what number of them and how much worse off? Will others perhaps be better off or have you totally discounted that possibility? Where do you get this knowledge of the future from?

As to no deal - it may well hurt - but if we have duties both ways on EU trade then as we have a huge trade deficit with the EU, all things being equal our government will have a tax gain to help it pay for things. Currently a big chunk of our international trade is routed via Rotterdam. If we have no access to the single market, Rotterdam and Holland suffer but potentially our seaports gain. Maybe Liverpool and Bristol for example, West Cost ports that have been devastated by EU membership.?

IF we end up with no deal and WTO terms, it will effectively increase the cost of all of the UK's imports by 10%, so in that sense everyone in the UK would be worse off.
Also, it will increase the cost of our products going overseas so, you could say that people in the EU will also be worse off.
However, will they still buy the goods from the UK that are produced here or, will they look elsewhere for some of these goods and services.
Of course, we may be able to source some of the more expensive goods elsewhere. However, as the EU is our closest trading block, which means that we can obtain goods, especially food, quickly, we dont have the same number of options (and we have to secure trade deals with other nations before we can buy from them).
As for goods coming into Rotterdam, prior to coming to the UK and suggesting that we could use Liverpool or Bristol, this is just bizarre.
Rotterdam is used as a drop off point as vessels are en route to other destinations, Liverpool or Bristol are not.
We could use different UK sea ports but, again, this will add cost to the products that we are seeking to import.

Felixstow is probably the largest port for goods coming from the East (China, India etc), purely because it is the cheapest place to have goods delivered to but, if you want to pay, you can have goods delivered to any port with facilities for stripping containers.

Places like Liverpool gained prominence in the 19th century, primarily due to the substantial northern manufacturing base for cotton, which was converted in mills in the North of England.
Sadly that trade is dead in the UK and unless we want to pay our workers $70/80 per MONTH, this industry wont be returning to the UK for the foreseeable future.
This isn't due to the EU, it's down to the very cheap manufacturing centres of China, India and Bangladesh etc.

Again, please point out the "up side" but, you will have to do a whole lot better than your last post.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:28 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:
I am. I have no worries at all.

What has changed in recent times that has concerned you so much to prompt you to re-ask the question?


I think that most of what we hear in the press is political posturing, rather than information aimed at the general public.
Also, having just spent a few days in France, watching Trinity, the view from "the other side" seems a little different to that which we are being fed over here.
Personally, I feel that, with 27 other nations to negotiate with, all of whom have different hopes and expectations, the most likely outcome within the 2 year time frame, will be "no deal", which will leave many people significantly worse off.
Add to this the rhetoric coming out of India (saying we could have a trade deal in return for greater freedom of movement) and you begin to realise that the whole fiasco and deceit from the leave campaign (in relation to speedy trade deals with other nations) very likely to leave us in a worse place than we were within the EU.
I know that we will have control of our borders but, we also lose our own rights to free movement within the EU.
THere are issues to be resolved with regards to EU nationals in the UK and UK nationals in the EU plus, Scotland wanting out, a whole mess in Ireland, which could well get very, very messy so, yes, things appear more bleak than they were.

So nothing has changed, you've just had a few beers with the Frogs from the south with the outcome being a fabricated negative picture. Got it.

Re: Brexit Anyone? (2) : Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:55 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:

So nothing has changed, you've just had a few beers with the Frogs from the south with the outcome being a fabricated negative picture. Got it.

No beers, just chance to read and listen to the "story" from the other side.
You know, listen to a different perspective, rather than the tunnel vision leading to Utopia that Farage and his ilk were selling.
There is a fair amount of anger at Britain's exit, which is not conducive to "us" getting a good deal.

Remember, the clock is ticking a lot louder for us that it is for the rest of Europe but, hey, you keep your fingers crossed and cover your ears.
Everything will be fine.