Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:07 pm  

Mintball wrote:

When is some hack going to have the balls to ask him the obvious bleedin' question: 'what work?'? And then go further and point out to him not only the actual unemployed figure, but the increasing public knowledge of underemployment, plus the paucity of actual jobs being advertised.

As the Times has reprted, successive governments have been bailed out by the supermarket and retail industry employing people especially those with few qualifications who prevuiously went into manufacturing. The problem is technology is now atarting to massively reduce jobs in that sector (saelf-checkouts, online, etc) which currently employs 3 million people (increasingly on a part-time basis). The future does not look good.

[DaveO]

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 3:45 pm  

El Barbudo wrote:

I have just read that link.
Once again, we see that what IDS says is the opposite of the truth.
The simple truth is that he is cutting benefits for people whether out of work or in work.
He can dress it up as "incentivising people into work" all he likes but the fact remains, he's lying.

I have just read it as well and what struck me was this:

'This reversal is a direct result of benefit cuts, not counted into early universal credit plans. Instead, ministers continue to make claims they must surely know to be false. Here's Lord Freud again: "As people move into work and work more hours, they will know that universal credit will be on their side and will mean they are better off from working. This is because universal credit will be withdrawn at a consistent and predictable rate as their earnings increase." Freud and Iain Duncan Smith know this is not true – but they have devised a remedy. Is it to restore the cuts causing this, or to soften the taper so universal credit is withdrawn more slowly? No, there are no new carrots, only their new stick. For the first time people in part-time work will be sanctioned with benefit stoppages if they don't prove they are looking for more hours: "in-work conditionality" is the phrase. Many part-timers desperately want more work but can't find it. Couples who couldn't find 24 hours of work last year had their benefits cut by a huge £4,000, leaving people frantic for extra work. The hidden under-employed are now to be punished as skivers.'

So yes they can claim the more hours they work the better off they are but only because benefits are stopped not because work has suddenly started paying! You can bet your life that won't stop them making the claim as technically it's correct.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 5:59 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

Rolling all benefits into a single payment may be a good way to encourage claimants to budget responsibly but there was a simple reason that HB was paid directly to the landlord - many claimants are simply incapable fo budgeting.

Well maybe they should learn to take some personal responsibility for themselves.

Budgeting is a skill and if they can't do it, they should learn.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:02 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

:roll:

Well maybe they should learn to take some personal responsibility for themselves.

Budgeting is a skill and if they can't do it, they should learn.

And that is the simple solution that all heartless tories will suggest

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:10 pm  

cod'ead wrote:

And that is the simple solution that all heartless tories will suggest

Hardly heartless is it asking people to learn a new skill? A skill which will benefit that person for the rest of their lives.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:26 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

:roll:

Well maybe they should learn to take some personal responsibility for themselves.

Budgeting is a skill and if they can't do it, they should learn.

My best mate is a former bank manager, now working in business finance. She can't budget to save her life but she has personal responsibility and has more skills than I can shake a stick at. She's been left home over 20 years and if she hasn't mastered the skill now she never will. My point is some people either never want to learn or try and learn and still find they're crap at it.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:32 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

My best mate is a former bank manager, now working in business finance. She can't budget to save her life but she has personal responsibility and has more skills than I can shake a stick at. She's been left home over 20 years and if she hasn't mastered the skill now she never will. My point is some people either never want to learn or try and learn and still find they're crap at it.

The other point that Ajw71 conveniently 'forgets' is that for many people on low and very low incomes it's nearly impossible to budget to start with, given both low incomes and the cost of living, and is rendered even more so by anything happening like, say, the boiler going.

But hey, it's a useful lifeskill that they should learn – they being an homogenised group that someone like Ajw71 feels able to look down on without actually bothering to engage his brain cell.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:40 pm  

Mintball wrote:

The other point that Ajw71 conveniently 'forgets' is that for many people on low and very low incomes it's nearly impossible to budget to start with, given both low incomes and the cost of living, and is rendered even more so by anything happening like, say, the boiler going.

Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?

Mintball wrote:

But hey, it's a useful lifeskill that they should learn – they being an homogenised group that someone like Ajw71 feels able to look down on without actually bothering to engage his brain cell.

"many claimants cannot budget" - Cod'ed.

Negative stereotyping hey.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 6:50 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?


"many claimants cannot budget" - Cod'ed.

Negative stereotyping hey.

Take yer blue spex off!! You're saying Coddys stereo typing but aren't you doing the same assuming its only benefit claimants who can't budget

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 06, 2013 7:00 pm  

Hull White Star wrote:

Take yer blue spex off!! You're saying Coddys stereo typing but aren't you doing the same assuming its only benefit claimants who can't budget

I'm not one to defend Ajw71 but I can't see where he's said that.

Simple budgeting should be part of an all round education and is something that administrations of both hues have neglected.