Re: IS and the Western response : Fri Oct 03, 2014 12:31 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Is that how Blair sold it to Parliament then?.....

Nah, a group of people actually sat there and debated whether to go to war. Unfortunately, they decided to go ahead.

Now whether God brainwashed all those guys too, I don't know, but I'm pretty certain Tony didn't stand up on the day and say 'Its what God wants, lads'.

If Blair openly admits to praying to god for guidance, then that's his own lookout, but I'm still pretty certain we don't use holy books to make our laws, unlike in some other countries around the world......

..... 'Right everybody, human rights.... Now it says in Matthew, Chapter....' .....

Nope, in fact I don't blame most of the parliamentary MPs for voting in favour of the 2003 invasion of Iraq because if you repeated the same exercise today for another random middle east country with a leader who has previously been demonised by press reports then the same decision would probably result.

What won the vote back then was the so-called September Dossier which gave the opinion that Saddam had access to nuclear weapon grade uranium and was already in possession of biological weapons that could be ready for action "within 45 minutes", the compliant press were quick to pick this up and declare that Saddam was ready for nuclear war within 45 minutes (Murdochs press especially so).

Since then the September Dossier has been proved to be a spectacular exercise in telling outright lies based on no evidence whatsoever - but it convinced all those who read it and led directly to the invasion and all that followed - that is all that is needed to kick off a holy war if you ever wanted to start one, presumably Blair had possession of the dossier before the parliamentary vote and it was at that point that he prayed to his God, as did Bush and inside both of their heads and driven by a dossier of lies they made their decisions, or rather a God of their choice made it for them.

Re: IS and the Western response : Fri Oct 03, 2014 4:03 pm  

Standee wrote:

we are NOT a Christian country, we are a country that has had Christian Dogma determine our path... crusades...?

And is that a bad thing or do you suggest we extinguish all our links with our Christian past? - Knock down all the cathedrals and churches throughout the land?.... Outlaw Christmas and Easter?

Surely there is nothing wrong with taking guidance from, or keeping the traditions of, the past, even if they stem from a Christian root, if it is serving some sort of positive in society in general?..... That is a massive difference from a society which uses religious books to form great sections of their laws, many of which are associated with punishments only fit for the Stone Age, which is what happens in many strict Muslim countries, and, indeed, in some extreme Christian countries too.

Re: IS and the Western response : Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:39 pm  

Another display of compassion by ISis

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Oct 04, 2014 7:32 am  

Starbug wrote:

Another display of compassion by ISis

You have to feel pity for his family - terrible thought of his last few seconds.

Will not be long before the next either.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:33 pm  

Starbug wrote:

Another display of compassion by ISis

Unfortunately it was always going to happen once the UK joined the military campaign.

What is has done, is harden public opinion against IS and demonstrated exactly the sort of people we're dealing with. The sort of people that absolutely cannot be allowed to increase their stranglehold on the region and must be wiped from the face of the earth.

What has been refreshing and probably incredibly annoying for certain right-wing groups, is to see so many Muslim groups and communities appealing for Alan Henning's release, and holding services for him after his death. The fact IS ignored them will hopefully align many more Muslims against them.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sat Oct 04, 2014 10:04 pm  

Cronus wrote:

Unfortunately it was always going to happen once the UK joined the military campaign.

What is has done, is harden public opinion against IS and demonstrated exactly the sort of people we're dealing with. The sort of people that absolutely cannot be allowed to increase their stranglehold on the region and must be wiped from the face of the earth.

What has been refreshing and probably incredibly annoying for certain right-wing groups, is to see so many Muslim groups and communities appealing for Alan Henning's release, and holding services for him after his death. The fact IS ignored them will hopefully align many more Muslims against them.

Yep

Re: IS and the Western response : Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:18 am  

Cronus wrote:

Unfortunately it was always going to happen once the UK joined the military campaign.

What is has done, is harden public opinion against IS and demonstrated exactly the sort of people we're dealing with. The sort of people that absolutely cannot be allowed to increase their stranglehold on the region and must be wiped from the face of the earth.

What has been refreshing and probably incredibly annoying for certain right-wing groups, is to see so many Muslim groups and communities appealing for Alan Henning's release, and holding services for him after his death. The fact IS ignored them will hopefully align many more Muslims against them.

Isn't about time Muslims in the UK condemned IS though? They have been pressurised by the Establishment for some time to speak out but seems to me to have taken them a while. Possibly done as a matter of self-interest?

Re: IS and the Western response : Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:33 am  

Dally wrote:

Isn't about time Muslims in the UK condemned IS though? They have been pressurised by the Establishment for some time to speak out but seems to me to have taken them a while. Possibly done as a matter of self-interest?

Condemning them may be seen as some as an admission of association. Don't see anyone demanding the Christians in the UK to actively condemn the Westboro Baptist Church or the Ku Klux Klan before they can be granted some respect by everyone else.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:42 am  

Cronus wrote:

What is has done, is harden public opinion against IS and demonstrated exactly the sort of people we're dealing with. The sort of people that absolutely cannot be allowed to increase their stranglehold on the region and must be wiped from the face of the earth.

What has been refreshing and probably incredibly annoying for certain right-wing groups, is to see so many Muslim groups and communities appealing for Alan Henning's release, and holding services for him after his death. The fact IS ignored them will hopefully align many more Muslims against them.

Exactly - The same thing is beginning to happen here as to what happened in the 90's with the IRA, after the Omagh bombing, when all sides came together and simply said they'd had enough of all the pointless killing.... The IRA lost any respect and sympathy from those who had any for them and very quickly peace talks were initiated and concluded.

Its obvious things won't be so simple here, but what will happen is that IS will isolate themselves - They are actually pushing themselves further away from the very people they should be trying to get onside (fellow Muslims) and though I don't see a quick outcome, its now becoming a situation where its IS against the rest of the world.... Even in the madness of the modern world, there is only one outcome to that, its just upto IS and its nutty disciples how messy it will be for them.

Re: IS and the Western response : Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:01 am  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Exactly - The same thing is beginning to happen here as to what happened in the 90's with the IRA, after the Omagh bombing, when all sides came together and simply said they'd had enough of all the pointless killing.... The IRA lost any respect and sympathy from those who had any for them and very quickly peace talks were initiated and concluded.

Its obvious things won't be so simple here, but what will happen is that IS will isolate themselves - They are actually pushing themselves further away from the very people they should be trying to get onside (fellow Muslims) and though I don't see a quick outcome, its now becoming a situation where its IS against the rest of the world.... Even in the madness of the modern world, there is only one outcome to that, its just upto IS and its nutty disciples how messy it will be for them.

so you're comparing IS and the IRA now?