Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:46 pm  

cadoo wrote:

Apart from if you are a bank. In which case, you are too big to fail.

Completely agree - as a businessman banks inhibit business innovation - I have no truck with them at all

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Fri Dec 13, 2019 8:52 pm  

I work for a developer, if we own it and have planning permission we build on it. Sitting on a multi million pound investment is a crazy idea as the longer you wait to get the ROI, the smaller that will be.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:57 am  

Without wanting to seem like one of the women who thought Johnson might change, here's my slim hope...

Cameron's massive sense of entitlement seemed integral to his being, whereas Johnson has had to consciously adopt it - his arrogance to some degree reflects his insecurities. Now he has won what he always wanted, maybe that will fill the yawning hole in his soul and he can become a real boy...? Jeez, this is desperate. If not, there might be some vicarious pleasure to be had from his upcoming revenge on Michael Gove.

It'll be interesting to see where, if anywhere, he goes with his One Nation Conservative theme. Maybe just an attempt at a reassuring soundbite, after having sacked so many One Nation Conservatives. However, it'd be nice if Raab, Patel and Rees-Mogg got to spend more time with their families. Not for their families, obviously, just the rest of us.

After a competition for the role of Prime Minister between two Party leaders seemingly massively ill-suited to it, at least Labour can change theirs - though there's every chance they'll mess it up. And the Tories get to own their Brexit, whether it proves disastrous or merely hugely underwhelming for those pinning their hopes on it.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:23 am  

Mild Rover wrote:

Without wanting to seem like one of the women who thought Johnson might change, here's my slim hope...

Cameron's massive sense of entitlement seemed integral to his being, whereas Johnson has had to consciously adopt it - his arrogance to some degree reflects his insecurities. Now he has won what he always wanted, maybe that will fill the yawning hole in his soul and he can become a real boy...? Jeez, this is desperate. If not, there might be some vicarious pleasure to be had from his upcoming revenge on Michael Gove.

It'll be interesting to see where, if anywhere, he goes with his One Nation Conservative theme. Maybe just an attempt at a reassuring soundbite, after having sacked so many One Nation Conservatives. However, it'd be nice if Raab, Patel and Rees-Mogg got to spend more time with their families. Not for their families, obviously, just the rest of us.

After a competition for the role of Prime Minister between two Party leaders seemingly massively ill-suited to it, at least Labour can change theirs - though there's every chance they'll mess it up. And the Tories get to own their Brexit, whether it proves disastrous or merely hugely underwhelming for those pinning their hopes on it.

This is a once in a generation opportunity to set a centre-right agenda that encourages business but uses those benefits to ensure a better social infrastructure. A very soft Brexit wont cut it and the EU now realise they can't just push the UK around as they would have been able to do with Labour or a hung Parliament. Noises coming out of the EU suggest the penny has dropped.

The North can no longer be seen as a poor relative to the South - failure to address this will cause Boris significant pain in the future. It shouldn't take 1 hur to do a 30 mile journey between two of the biggest cities in the North

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:26 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

This is a once in a generation opportunity to set a centre-right agenda that encourages business but uses those benefits to ensure a better social infrastructure. A very soft Brexit wont cut it and the EU now realise they can't just push the UK around as they would have been able to do with Labour or a hung Parliament. Noises coming out of the EU suggest the penny has dropped.

The North can no longer be seen as a poor relative to the South - failure to address this will cause Boris significant pain in the future. It shouldn't take 1 hur to do a 30 mile journey between two of the biggest cities in the North

You're still clinging to the idea that "the EU" is some sort of amorphous blob. They are 27 individual member states who have given the negotiators instructions and red lines. But we've been through all this and you still think having red lines is bullying.

But I'm pleased you seem to be buying into some sort of socialist infrastructure spending for the north of England.

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:40 am  

The Ghost of '99 wrote:

You're still clinging to the idea that "the EU" is some sort of amorphous blob. They are 27 individual member states who have given the negotiators instructions and red lines. But we've been through all this and you still think having red lines is bullying.

But I'm pleased you seem to be buying into some sort of socialist infrastructure spending for the north of England.

If Brexit was such a huge issue then a soft Labour-style Brexit will not go down well - there has to be a tangible differences between where we are now and where we end up.

The idea the EU have morphed in May and will be so rigid that we have to comply with whatever they want doesn't ring true no matter what you hope for. The last thing they want is a buoyant large economy showing that there is life outside of the EU

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:02 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

This is a once in a generation opportunity to set a centre-right agenda that encourages business but uses those benefits to ensure a better social infrastructure. A very soft Brexit wont cut it and the EU now realise they can't just push the UK around as they would have been able to do with Labour or a hung Parliament. Noises coming out of the EU suggest the penny has dropped.

The North can no longer be seen as a poor relative to the South - failure to address this will cause Boris significant pain in the future. It shouldn't take 1 hur to do a 30 mile journey between two of the biggest cities in the North

We all hope that you are right.
However, can you remember Mrs May saying "we're all in this together", which translated into, "we're doing ok and it's tough on the rest of you".
Although the times were slightly different, she too was pretending that the Tories had suddenly started caring about others which, fundamentally they just dont.
The ethos is to look after yourself, first, second and third and ok, if some crumbs fall off the table, the "poor" may still be able to eat.
However, I would suggest that, despite his welcoming rhetoric, Johnson doesn't have a clue what "everyday" life is like for many of those who have just put him in Downing Street.
I will say that Corbyn too, hadn't got a clue and although we should all welcome some of Labour's social policies, he was offering nothing to the many and looking after just those at the bottom of the pile - not the worst thing in the world but, it would never get him elected - something that, even after one hell of a beating, he just cant grasp.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:57 am  

Sal Paradise wrote:

This is a once in a generation opportunity to set a centre-right agenda that encourages business but uses those benefits to ensure a better social infrastructure. A very soft Brexit wont cut it and the EU now realise they can't just push the UK around as they would have been able to do with Labour or a hung Parliament. Noises coming out of the EU suggest the penny has dropped.

The North can no longer be seen as a poor relative to the South - failure to address this will cause Boris significant pain in the future. It shouldn't take 1 hur to do a 30 mile journey between two of the biggest cities in the North

The Conservative Government does have tremendous power now, and they need a renewed agenda. Johnson ran against the memory of Cameron and May, as well as (though obviously not as much as) the prospect of Corbyn, but that doesn’t mean he won’t quickly be tainted by their legacy if things don’t go well. Also, he’s going to lose one of his biggest electoral assets in Corbyn.

The Brexit exit is done, it’s hardness agreed and just awaiting ratification. ‘Canada’ with a border in the Irish Sea.

Now, it’s ‘just’ the horse-trading of the free-trade deal. Certain industries (e.g. financial services) and interests will be prioritised, and others (e.g. almost anything else, potentially, given Johnson’s mercurial nature), inevitably, will share the fate of the DUP. As Mr Ghost points out, the unity of the EU position will be more under more pressure than during the exit negotiations. Then it was fairly simple to agree to let us choose from the existing range of statuses for non-members. They’ll have their own internal horse-trading to do for this stage, so where they have been frustrated with our slowness to this point, that may flip moving forwards. It’s likely that to keep his promise to end the transition period at the end of 2020, Johnson have to accept WTO terms, or accept a rushed deal with more concessions. Or go back on his promise - can you imagine?!

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:14 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The Brexit exit is done, it’s hardness agreed and just awaiting ratification. ‘Canada’ with a border in the Irish Sea.

This is such a huge thing now - the consequences of the Johnson deal on Northern Ireland could be massive if an alternative isn't worked out through the transition period (and no reasonable proposition that involves leaving the CU/SM has yet been suggested).

A no deal exit presented the prospect of a hard border across the English Channel which was unthinkable madness. Erecting a softer border, but a border nonetheless, down the Irish Sea would have less economic impact - although clearly some. But dividing the United Kingdom up like that is distinctly unpalatable and in normal times would be unacceptable to the unionist party.

Certainly I know of nobody in business who has yet worked out the consequences - the company I work for has outlets in Northern Ireland and paying VAT and export duty on goods being delivered from our main warehouse to there (and then claiming it back afterwards) is preposterous.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Boris Johnson - spinless leader ? : Sat Dec 14, 2019 6:00 pm  

The Ghost of '99 wrote: This is such a huge thing now - the consequences of the Johnson deal on Northern Ireland could be massive if an alternative isn't worked out through the transition period (and no reasonable proposition that involves leaving the CU/SM has yet been suggested). A no deal exit presented the prospect of a hard border across the English Channel which was unthinkable madness. Erecting a softer border, but a border nonetheless, down the Irish Sea would have less economic impact - although clearly some. But dividing the United Kingdom up like that is distinctly unpalatable and in normal times would be unacceptable to the unionist party. Certainly I know of nobody in business who has yet worked out the consequences - the company I work for has outlets in Northern Ireland and paying VAT and export duty on goods being delivered from our main warehouse to there (and then claiming it back afterwards) is preposterous. Aye. It is still just a (NI-only) backstop - it’ll be interesting to see if we ever hear anything more about alternative arrangements and technological solutions, or if that is just too much bother now, and they just accept the new backstop as part of the deal, as there’s so much else to negotiate. I can’t easily imagine any pinkening of the ECJ redline, or that Johnson won’t want more freedom to diverge more than CU/SM membership would allow. That’d also let Farage back out of his box, and make him a Tory problem again. The EU are reported to be thinking of requesting an extension to the transition period, which’d allow Johnson to technically keep his word ( ) about not asking for one, get the extension that will be needed and maybe play the magnanimous statesman. I bet he’d ham that up to 11. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... is-johnson That report also says the EU might try for sequencing whereby they basically talk about and come to agreement on their priorities, before moving on to financial services etc. Even I think that is beyond a reach, so they either think they have more leverage than I think they do, or it is just something that costs them nothing to give away later. And Johnson can sell it as another win, on his way to an even bigger majority in 2024, and I can listen to how cuddly he is while waiting my turn in the queue for the food bank.

The Ghost of '99 wrote: This is such a huge thing now - the consequences of the Johnson deal on Northern Ireland could be massive if an alternative isn't worked out through the transition period (and no reasonable proposition that involves leaving the CU/SM has yet been suggested). A no deal exit presented the prospect of a hard border across the English Channel which was unthinkable madness. Erecting a softer border, but a border nonetheless, down the Irish Sea would have less economic impact - although clearly some. But dividing the United Kingdom up like that is distinctly unpalatable and in normal times would be unacceptable to the unionist party. Certainly I know of nobody in business who has yet worked out the consequences - the company I work for has outlets in Northern Ireland and paying VAT and export duty on goods being delivered from our main warehouse to there (and then claiming it back afterwards) is preposterous. Aye. It is still just a (NI-only) backstop - it’ll be interesting to see if we ever hear anything more about alternative arrangements and technological solutions, or if that is just too much bother now, and they just accept the new backstop as part of the deal, as there’s so much else to negotiate. I can’t easily imagine any pinkening of the ECJ redline, or that Johnson won’t want more freedom to diverge more than CU/SM membership would allow. That’d also let Farage back out of his box, and make him a Tory problem again. The EU are reported to be thinking of requesting an extension to the transition period, which’d allow Johnson to technically keep his word ( ) about not asking for one, get the extension that will be needed and maybe play the magnanimous statesman. I bet he’d ham that up to 11. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... is-johnson That report also says the EU might try for sequencing whereby they basically talk about and come to agreement on their priorities, before moving on to financial services etc. Even I think that is beyond a reach, so they either think they have more leverage than I think they do, or it is just something that costs them nothing to give away later. And Johnson can sell it as another win, on his way to an even bigger majority in 2024, and I can listen to how cuddly he is while waiting my turn in the queue for the food bank.