Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:26 pm  

rover49 wrote:

Sometimes defending yourself means you need to go on the offensive, nature of conflict I'm afraid...

Great. Glad to see you finally understanding what the Palestinians are going through.

Have you read that article yet?

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:29 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Great. Glad to see you finally understanding what the Palestinians are going through.

Have you read that article yet?

I have never not understood what the Palestinians are going through, I just don't think we can ignore what they do to achieve their aims.

No I haven't read the article, but I will. I am just skipping in and out while doing paid work at the moment.

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 1:32 pm  

Mintball wrote:

'Dirty weapons'? Like the phosphorus the Israelis have used on Gaza?

At least the sonic booms that caused miscarriages weren't 'dirty', eh?

We'd have only been allowed to be outraged if they'd used mustard gas, Sarin and Tabun like Saddam did against the Kurds.

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 2:10 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Great. Glad to see you finally understanding what the Palestinians are going through.

Have you read that article yet?

How do you know what they are going though? Have you lived there?

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:00 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

How do you know what they are going though? Have you lived there?

Have you?

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:13 pm  

rover49 wrote:

I have never not understood what the Palestinians are going through, I just don't think we can ignore what they do to achieve their aims.

No I haven't read the article, but I will. I am just skipping in and out while doing paid work at the moment.

FWIW, I do believe that the ultimate resolution has to be a two-state one. But nothing I've seen from the state of Israel over some decades suggests that they are meaningfully remotely interested in that. And now we have the US saying that it will withdraw any aid from the Palestinians (which is miniscule by comparison with how much it props up the state of Israel), if the Palestinians dare to go to the UN and ask to be called a state.

Lobbing rockets at random into Israel is, in my opinion, a crass and counterproductive tactic.

But then again, I'm not imprisoned on a tiny bit of land, blockaded in, being subjected to regular raids and attacks, and haven't had my home stolen from me and then been expected to grovel to those who stole it.

And it frankly flabbergasts me that people don't realise this reality. The UK helps to arm the state of Israel. David Miliband made a decision, while in government, to continue that. William Hague says it's all only the fault of one side.

And that's just a snapshot of UK reaction: what can the Palestinians do?

In the wake of WWII, very few Jewish refugees were allowed asylum in European nations west of Germany/the Iron Curtain – certainly in relation to the numbers of non-Jewish refugees. The main tactic was to create a Jewish state so that those Jewish refugees would go there (indeed, as promised by the 1916 Balfour Declaration).

So there is an argument that, in fact, deciding to inflict an imperialist 'solution' onto the Middle East was actually a subtle continuation of anti-semitism – and was certainly inherently racist. But okay, we're too far down the line to change that.

So okay, where do we go from here? That's the crucial question.

But we cannot ignore the history and we have to challenge the perception of Israeli 'defence', which leads many people to end up siding with Goliath against David.

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:13 pm  

WIZEB wrote:

We'd have only been allowed to be outraged if they'd used mustard gas, Sarin and Tabun like Saddam did against the Kurds.

^

Wot he said.

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:23 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Have you?

No.

For the second time, have you?

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:41 pm  

Ajw71 wrote: No. For the second time, have you? I know people who have. I know people who have visited. I know people who have worked there. A very good piece from one of them.

Ajw71 wrote: No. For the second time, have you? I know people who have. I know people who have visited. I know people who have worked there. A very good piece from one of them.

Re: Lest we forget : Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:11 pm  

Mintball wrote:

Strange, isn't it, that when moderates are humiliated, people will turn to more radical leaders?

Who'd a thunk that, eh?

You could be mistaken for imagining that, say, the lessons of Iran had been learned. No?

You just sound ridiculous making allowances and excuses for Palestinian murder.

But well done for continuing to fall for the Israeli propaganda machine. Still, at least those Israelis are mostly white and not a bunch of sand n*gger rag heads, eh?

Im not sure what you think about Hamas charter is Israeli propaganda.

The Zionist terrorists never poisoned wells, shot people in the back of the head, drove people from their homes etc etc. And if they did, in your book that's all hunky dory.

Because that's what you're saying is acceptable. Well done.

What the flying f@ck are you talking about?