Re: Scottish Referendum : Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:14 am  

It seems the Better Together campaign have now attempted to use the Royal Mail as another scare tactic.

An 'expert' has suggested there will be a substantial increase in postage costs post any Yes vote. No Royal Mail financial figures were used in the calculations, with the Royal Mail stating that they were not going to become involved & that the decision was entirely for the Scottish people.

Brown & Miliband may be able to get the core Labour vote out, but will the more intelligent Scots really put up with being insulted?

Those that have already cast their postal vote must be glad they can ignore everythign unti the result is announced.

Will be interesting to see where the No vote will leave the SNP.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:57 am  

What is certain is that close to 50% of people who consider themselves Scottish will be unhappy with the result, which in itself isnt healthy

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 9:26 am  

LeagueDweeb wrote:

It seems the Better Together campaign have now attempted to use the Royal Mail as another scare tactic.

An 'expert' has suggested there will be a substantial increase in postage costs post any Yes vote. No Royal Mail financial figures were used in the calculations, with the Royal Mail stating that they were not going to become involved & that the decision was entirely for the Scottish people.

Brown & Miliband may be able to get the core Labour vote out, but will the more intelligent Scots really put up with being insulted?

Those that have already cast their postal vote must be glad they can ignore everythign unti the result is announced.

Will be interesting to see where the No vote will leave the SNP.

No will leave them pretty much where they've been. Pushing for devo max and planning for the next referendum.

A yes vote is perhaps more interesting. How will they position themselves in the future once independence has been achieved? How will they differentiate themselves from Scottish Labour?

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 10:58 am  

Cibaman wrote:

No will leave them pretty much where they've been. Pushing for devo max and planning for the next referendum.

A yes vote is perhaps more interesting. How will they position themselves in the future once independence has been achieved? How will they differentiate themselves from Scottish Labour?

A yes vote will expose them as just another political party with little realistic ability to change the status quo - Salmond just sails along at present, promising some bright new world for the Scottish people, when, in reality, little will change for the vast majority of the population. Mundane life will just continue for most and at political level, life will just become a bit more complicated.

Their campaign has reminded me massively of Tony Blair's and New Labour's in 1997 - After 18 years of Tory rule, which had eventually turned stale, the UK population were promised huge change, and with Blair at the helm, who had an undeniably fresh-faced charisma, huge numbers of previously cynical voters were swept along on the euphoria of it all.... Once elected, while they tried their best to bring change, things never really altered for the normal, working-class British person.

The same thing is happening now - Salmond is promising to save Scots from the staleness of British rule.... Once independent, nothing will change but for having nobody to blame for their problems but themselves.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:10 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

No will leave them pretty much where they've been. Pushing for devo max and planning for the next referendum.

A yes vote is perhaps more interesting. How will they position themselves in the future once independence has been achieved? How will they differentiate themselves from Scottish Labour?

A no vote is pretty much a vote of no confidence in the SNP & a vote of no confidence in Scotland itself.
A Yes vote will mean the Scots have confidence in themselves, and thought the SNP will have delivered the referendum & will hold support off the back of it, it will give Scottish Labour a chance to reinvent itself & challenge in the next election.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:22 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

A yes vote will expose them as just another political party with little realistic ability to change the status quo - Salmond just sails along at present, promising some bright new world for the Scottish people, when, in reality, little will change for the vast majority of the population. Mundane life will just continue for most and at political level, life will just become a bit more complicated.

Their campaign has reminded me massively of Tony Blair's and New Labour's in 1997 - After 18 years of Tory rule, which had eventually turned stale, the UK population were promised huge change, and with Blair at the helm, who had an undeniably fresh-faced charisma, huge numbers of previously cynical voters were swept along on the euphoria of it all.... Once elected, while they tried their best to bring change, things never really altered for the normal, working-class British person.

The same thing is happening now - Salmond is promising to save Scots from the staleness of British rule.... Once independent, nothing will change but for having nobody to blame for their problems but themselves.

A Yes vote will change the status quo. Self determination is not the status quo for Scots.

It will also change England as the Lothian question will have to be answered, thereby removing 59 MP's from Westminster &/or requring the formation of an English Parliament.

Blair didn't re-engage voters. The 1997 turnout was lower than any other election since 1945 and the 2001 election turnout dropped by 12%. he certainly got the dormant Labour vote out, but nothing beyond that.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:03 pm  

LeagueDweeb wrote:

Blair didn't re-engage voters. The 1997 turnout was lower than any other election since 1945 and the 2001 election turnout dropped by 12%. he certainly got the dormant Labour vote out, but nothing beyond that.

Maybe, but Blair was undoubtedly the Great White Hope of British politics at the time. He even managed to get a previously anti-Labour Sun newspaper to switch sides - Unfortunately, he was a bit of a anti-climax.... Salmond will go the same way, because, like most 'opposition' parties do, all he has had to do is make empty promises. Once left with the keys to power, most of these 'charismatic' leaders are usually exposed as chancers - Salmond will be no different.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 3:05 pm  

Dita's Slot Meter wrote:

Maybe, but Blair was undoubtedly the Great White Hope of British politics at the time. He even managed to get a previously anti-Labour Sun newspaper to switch sides - Unfortunately, he was a bit of a anti-climax.... Salmond will go the same way, because, like most 'opposition' parties do, all he has had to do is make empty promises. Once left with the keys to power, most of these 'charismatic' leaders are usually exposed as chancers - Salmond will be no different.

problem is, Scotland may well be left in a very difficult position.

It's like leaving a packed nightclub with a queue outside, once you're out, you're out!

[DaveO]

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 7:19 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

A yes vote is perhaps more interesting. How will they position themselves in the future once independence has been achieved? How will they differentiate themselves from Scottish Labour?

The SNP used to be known as the Tartan Tories. The demographic of your SNP member back in the day was very similar to that of a centre-right voter.

Given the SNP white paper is a mish-mash of both left and right policies such as a Nationalised health service yet cutting corporation tax I don't think they know themselves if they are left or right despite the fact they are pitching this as an anti-Tory vote

My view is that down the line many Scots on the left will be disappointed when reality hits.

Re: Scottish Referendum : Sun Sep 14, 2014 8:12 pm  

Even if independence turns out to be hugely successful, the benefits will not really be proven for several years. Independence isn't a quick fix. In the short term there will be more losers than winners as the economy adjusts to independence. And losers make more noise than winners. The SNP may enjoy a honeymoon period after independence but the subsequent election will be very difficult for them, particularly if they don't have much of an identity other than as nationalists