Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:34 am  

It's all these illegal immigrants getting benefits and carers with expense accounts that's the problem. That's why the NHS will fall apart in the real world.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:54 am  

Chris28 wrote:

Based on what? Agreeing with a newspaper editor, or some other facts about something that may or may not happen in the next 10 years?

Based on the fact that our country's share of world wealth and thereby real income is almost certain to decline significantly over that time period and over that time scale demand will increase dramatically as the ageing baby-boomers need care.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:03 pm  

Dally wrote:

Based on the fact that our country's share of world wealth and thereby real income is almost certain to decline significantly over that time period and over that time scale demand will increase dramatically as the ageing baby-boomers need care.

There is a method that can be employed to mitigate any potential future funding crisis in the NHS, it has been in use since 1799. It's called income tax (subsequently replaced with Corporation Tax for companies). Tax people and corporations accordingly and there would be no shortfall.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:27 pm  

Dally wrote:

Interesting lead article yesterday in City am. The Editor thought the government should drop the NHS reforms and sack Lansley as its a distraction from areas where they can make a difference. His view was that the the reform / no reform will make little difference either way to the NHS. He said the real issue won't go away and that the NHS will fall apart within 10 years as the country simply won't have the resources to fund it properly and tinkering about with these reforms will may no real difference to that prospect. Sadly, I fear he will be proved right.

The important point that people need to understand is contrary to Tory spin the decline of the NHS is not fixed in stone. It is being carefully managed by people in line with a wider ideological agenda. Under different leadership it could be made viable.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:45 pm  

Dally wrote:

Based on the fact that our country's share of world wealth and thereby real income is almost certain to decline significantly over that time period and over that time scale demand will increase dramatically as the ageing baby-boomers need care.

Ah! the economist's guesstimate.

So no real evidence then?

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:31 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

Ah! the economist's guesstimate.

So no real evidence then?

I think we have a well-established history of relative decline since the US overtook as as the world's richest country at the turn of the 20th Century. Certain emerging economies are likely to leave not just us but the US way behind. As to the ageing population, unless war, disease or famine wipes millions out then that's cast-iron.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:36 pm  

Dally wrote:

I think we have a well-established history of relative decline since the US overtook as as the world's richest country at the turn of the 20th Century. Certain emerging economies are likely to leave not just us but the US way behind. As to the ageing population, unless war, disease or famine wipes millions out then that's cast-iron.

Natural (and un-natural via beefburgers) dementia and a total lack of any income in future will rid the country of the scourge of scrounging pensioners, its the natural order of things.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:39 pm  

It'll be ok. Once the PM reads Dally's viral email and stops paying illegal immigrants £30k a year there'll be loads of money for everyone.

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:41 pm  

In Croatia someone has published a website, that has become quite popular, that equates the national economy to a household position (ie numbers and concepts people can understand readily). So, in its simplest it might say the natiional position is equivalent to, say: Household annual income £13,500 Household expenditure £15,000 Shortfall added to credit card £1,500 Credit card total debt £18,000 The figures correspond to national revenues, expenditure, deficit and debt and relate directly and are updated. Apparently, the public can play about with policy assumptions / tough choices and learn how hard it is to get the deficit and debt figures down. Most people after having a go become fiscal conservatives. We need an academic to do this in this country so the public can make informed choices about the NHS and other government expenditure and the tax, etc ramifications of those choices. For those who understand Balkan languages: http://proracunskikalkulator.com

In Croatia someone has published a website, that has become quite popular, that equates the national economy to a household position (ie numbers and concepts people can understand readily). So, in its simplest it might say the natiional position is equivalent to, say: Household annual income £13,500 Household expenditure £15,000 Shortfall added to credit card £1,500 Credit card total debt £18,000 The figures correspond to national revenues, expenditure, deficit and debt and relate directly and are updated. Apparently, the public can play about with policy assumptions / tough choices and learn how hard it is to get the deficit and debt figures down. Most people after having a go become fiscal conservatives. We need an academic to do this in this country so the public can make informed choices about the NHS and other government expenditure and the tax, etc ramifications of those choices. For those who understand Balkan languages: http://proracunskikalkulator.com

Re: Privatisation of NHS hospitals begins : Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:03 pm  

Dally wrote: We need an academic to do this in this country so the public can make informed choices about the NHS and other government expenditure and the tax, etc ramifications of those choices. For those who understand Balkan languages: http://proracunskikalkulator.com The problem with that is the "informed choices" will probably not be as informed as you would like. As McLF pointed out in a previous post, many would choose not to pay tax to fund healthcare because they don't consider themselves in need of it

Dally wrote: We need an academic to do this in this country so the public can make informed choices about the NHS and other government expenditure and the tax, etc ramifications of those choices. For those who understand Balkan languages: http://proracunskikalkulator.com The problem with that is the "informed choices" will probably not be as informed as you would like. As McLF pointed out in a previous post, many would choose not to pay tax to fund healthcare because they don't consider themselves in need of it