Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Aug 07, 2013 5:30 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

... Which accidentally brings us full circle again - how the fook does anyone learn even the basics of budgeting when you don't know how many hours you'll be working next week ?

Precisely.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:48 am  

Ajw71 wrote:

Nearly impossible? - more sensationalist rubbish. Any excuse just so benefit claimants cannot take some personal responsibility! Don't you want them to make a better life for themselves, don't you want them to improve their life chances?...

Come on then Einstein.
How do you budget when you don't know what your income will be?

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:53 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

Come on then Einstein.
How do you budget when you don't know what your income will be?

... or even whether you will get any.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Wed Aug 07, 2013 8:02 am  

JerryChicken wrote:

We shouldn't necessarily pick on the likes of Ajw71 for I have noticed these past couple of years that those of the 20 to 35 (ish) generation are broadly more supportive of the benefits cuts, I don't know if this will convert to Tory votes in 2015 but I have a few loose theories for the apparent lack of sympathy and empathy for the unemployed, disabled and benefit dependent low waged...

1. In that age group there is an opposition to the principle of paying tax, its of no apparent benefit to a young fit, healthy employee, eventual retirement is not on the agenda at all, the NHS is somewhere you go to when you've drunk too much on a Saturday night, your doctor is somewhere you go for birth control, there is no thought to what else goes into running a National Health Service, there is no knowledge of how things used to be for their grandparents before the NHS.

2. They have already been told that the NIS that is deducted at source every week/month is not for their benefit, its not for their pension and they won't have a pension when they retire, its to pay for their elder generation's pension and for a health service that sick, old people use - I'd feel resentful for that too.

3. Cynicism only comes with age and life experience, possibly they just don't understand that a member of government could actually be in the job for their own ideology and own financial benefit, and that when a member of government says that something is so and mentions in passing some random statistics, then maybe they just don't immediately think "prove it" but in stead think that it must be so and how lucky are we that they are doing something about it.

4. That undeveloped cynicism doesn't help them question the printed media either, there is still a big belief in the population at large that if a newspaper prints something then it must be true and that all newspapers are totally independent of government interference or spoon-feeding.

5. They have not yet lived through enough governments to understand that party politics are a destructive and wasteful past-time, that supporting a party regardless of its philosophy is not what government should be about and that the strong should, even in some small way, protect the weak in any civilisation - that it is as wrong to target the weak and poor as "shirkers" and in some way as leaches of your personal taxation as it would be to say the same thing about (for instance) black people (and that used to happen and was used by political parties too).


In short, when young you believe that you are far more invincible than at any other time of your life, you don't believe that your parents were ever young or that they have ever held any other viewpoint than the one they have now, if they tell you that they now have the experience to judge better you dismiss that as condescending - next time you have an opportunity to speak to a 20 or 30-something, just ask them what they think of the government benefit reforms, or of immigration, or the EU and see if you get a view more aligned with Cameron than not.

Where as I (25) don't fall in to your generalisation of 20-35 year olds, I agree that the majority are completely apathetic about the NHS, welfare, etc. If I were to try and have a conversation with most of my friends about anything even remotely political, they would end up sounding like an EDL apologist where everything is because of gays and immigrants. I think the biggest problem is, as you say, that people under the age of 35 have no idea of real hardship. I think with most, it will simply be a case of "you don't know what you've got, until it's gone".

Most will see the bedroom tax as a good thing. Some will see it as not going far enough. I would imagine that some would be happier had they just scrapped benefits altogether.

Most will be like Ajw71 where as long as it doesn't directly affect them, it doesn't matter.

I think the reasons for all of this stems mostly out of consumerism. One wants to earn as much as possible yet pay as little as possible on necessities even if it will go towards helping others just so one can buy the latest electronics and clothes.

How can said people be educated to understand the need of the country rather than just themselves, or is this the new direction for the country. Are we going to end up going back to the poor and infirm living in workhouses, going back to living conditions at the end of the 19th century?

Unfortunately, the people that have the same viewpoint as Ajw71 will simply turn a blind eye to this because it doesn't affect them. Some will even profit out of it. This is the same reason our political system will never change.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:36 am  

As predicted: Bedroom Tax costs more than it saves No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates

As predicted: Bedroom Tax costs more than it saves No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:35 pm  

cod'ead wrote: As predicted: Bedroom Tax costs more than it saves No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates Don't be ridiculous, all one has to do is BELIEVE that something is working, for it to be so. I expect IDS to be along shortly with another ridiculous rebuff on the lines of "I was a high ranking officer in the army you know, I can't possibly be wrong"

cod'ead wrote: As predicted: Bedroom Tax costs more than it saves No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates Don't be ridiculous, all one has to do is BELIEVE that something is working, for it to be so. I expect IDS to be along shortly with another ridiculous rebuff on the lines of "I was a high ranking officer in the army you know, I can't possibly be wrong"

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:39 am  

cod'ead wrote: As predicted: Bedroom Tax costs more than it saves No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates Add to that the extra staff that Housing Associations, Local Authorities etc. have had to hire specifically as a result of administering the bedroom tax. I guess IDS "believes" that's all wrong as well. You only need a quick glance at Wikipedia to see the false claims in IDS' CV about universities and colleges he (never) attended to know what sort of 2@ we're talking about.

cod'ead wrote: As predicted: Bedroom Tax costs more than it saves No one saw that coming did they? Well no one of a tory leaning saw it. Economic illiterates Add to that the extra staff that Housing Associations, Local Authorities etc. have had to hire specifically as a result of administering the bedroom tax. I guess IDS "believes" that's all wrong as well. You only need a quick glance at Wikipedia to see the false claims in IDS' CV about universities and colleges he (never) attended to know what sort of 2@ we're talking about.

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Tue Aug 27, 2013 8:37 pm  

El Barbudo wrote: You only need a quick glance at Wikipedia to see the false claims in IDS' CV about universities and colleges he (never) attended to know what sort of 2@ we're talking about. Better still, have a read of the statement that was made to the HoC Select Committee on Standards and Privileges on the employment of IDS's wife in his parliamentary office, it dates back ten years to the time that he was leader of the party in opposition, but its fascinating to read about just what a poop he really is - and remember, this is not a journalist doing a hatchet job but a sworn statement to a HoC committee. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmstnprv/476/476we17.htm

El Barbudo wrote: You only need a quick glance at Wikipedia to see the false claims in IDS' CV about universities and colleges he (never) attended to know what sort of 2@ we're talking about. Better still, have a read of the statement that was made to the HoC Select Committee on Standards and Privileges on the employment of IDS's wife in his parliamentary office, it dates back ten years to the time that he was leader of the party in opposition, but its fascinating to read about just what a poop he really is - and remember, this is not a journalist doing a hatchet job but a sworn statement to a HoC committee. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmstnprv/476/476we17.htm

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:41 am  

JerryChicken wrote: Better still, have a read of the statement that was made to the HoC Select Committee on Standards and Privileges on the employment of IDS's wife in his parliamentary office, it dates back ten years to the time that he was leader of the party in opposition, but its fascinating to read about just what a poop he really is - and remember, this is not a journalist doing a hatchet job but a sworn statement to a HoC committee. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmstnprv/476/476we17.htm Although I was aware of the controversy around his wife's salary at public expense and the lack of evidence about her actually doing any work, I hadn't read that document. Blimey !

JerryChicken wrote: Better still, have a read of the statement that was made to the HoC Select Committee on Standards and Privileges on the employment of IDS's wife in his parliamentary office, it dates back ten years to the time that he was leader of the party in opposition, but its fascinating to read about just what a poop he really is - and remember, this is not a journalist doing a hatchet job but a sworn statement to a HoC committee. http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmstnprv/476/476we17.htm Although I was aware of the controversy around his wife's salary at public expense and the lack of evidence about her actually doing any work, I hadn't read that document. Blimey !

Re: Bedroom Tax - A Solution ? : Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:36 pm  

http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/regulation ... 260.mobile Can't tidy it up as on mobile, talk about hypocrites!

http://m.insidehousing.co.uk/regulation ... 260.mobile Can't tidy it up as on mobile, talk about hypocrites!