Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:58 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

But perhaps some sort of effort and resources should finally be aimed at actual training and actually improving driving standards. We get plenty of grim warning adverts and exhortations to be careful, but what good do they do? 36,371 deaths in 10 years. Anything else, and huge resources would be brought to bear. While UK road safety may be better than most places, that's beside the point.The carnage continues, and I reckon that one of the daily Commissions of Inquiry of which the Government is so fond should be set up to look at the issue from all sides. MPs fiddling theirn expenses is worthy of an inquiry and jailing the worst offenders, but surely pales into insignificance compared with thousands dying on our roads non-stop, year in, year out?

I know that this sort of comment is easily passed off as "old fogey" but until two years ago I was still driving 25-30k miles a year, since then its much less but its all inner-city which just makes things worse - I maintain that in recent years (say 10 years) the level of driver aggression on the roads has increased noticeably.

As most of my driving is now commuting and not driving to appointments any more I admit that I now drive much slower than I used to, speed cameras and three convictions (ok, not convictions, I dobbed myself in) have done that, but I'm constantly tail gated by other vehicles when driving at or very close to the speed limit who through either aggression or complete lack of knowledge are driving so close to my car that they wouldn't even have time to hit the brakes if I had to make an emergency stop.

The most common of those who follow so close at 30 or 40mph that you can't actually see their radiator grill in your rear view mirror are young women drivers, thats not to pick on them specifically but thats the result of my completely unscientific survey - I just think that they have no clue at all about road positioning and the theory of giving yourself plenty of reaction room, after all its your wallet thats going to suffer when you're in the boot of another car and you didn't even notice them braking.

Its simple education - I learned through experience when I passed my test in 1975 in cars that were far less safe than the ones we drive today, seatbelts weren't even compulsory then.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:02 pm  

tigertot wrote:

Drivers obsess about motorway driving because it affects them & their perceived safety, when infact it accounts for a small proportion of deaths on the roads.

I feel much less safe on single-lane A-roads than I do on the motorway. Sure, there are thousands of idiots on motorways, but the three lanes and relative straightness of the roads makes it easier to anticipate and avoid their stupidity. On single-lane A-roads you see some absolutely crazy overtaking in incredibly unsafe situations and, if you were coming the opposite way, there'd quite often be little you could do to avoid it.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:03 pm  

I agree that more should be done to educate drivers before giving them a license. I was lucky in that In my last job I spent a lot of time In HGV's as a passenger, and had drivers giving me lots of advice aswell as what I could see for myself on a daily basis. So when I did got on the motorway for the first time ( I had a HGV Driver with me who used to be an instructor) I understood the "laws" of the motorway and how to safely drive on them, So it shocks me when I think the majority of young people who have just passed their test are going out on the motorway for the first time without experienced people with them and no idea of what they are doing. Infact I see countless people driving on the motorway who arent always younger drivers sticking in the middle lane oblivious to how dangerous that can actually be.

Although as much as you can increase standards of driving instructing it still won't stop the d1cks who drive around cutting people up, over taking when they shouldn't be, under taking, speeding and all the rest of it. Better knowledge can stop some deaths, but there's a lot of cases where it is simply peoples attitudes and idiotic driving that causes "accidents" rather than them not knowing how to drive. Earlier this year 2 men where killed near me crossing a dual carriage way, a car in the outside lane slowed to let the 2 men across the road but the car behind decided to undertake the car and as he did the 2 men where killed. It wasn't a shock to anyone round here when it was reported that the driver was a young lad well known for screwing his modified escort around the area. It was an accident waiting to happen. There are too many drivers who just simply don't have any courtesy for other people using the road and will do anything to get where they are going 30 seconds earlier...and this is imo what causes so many accidents. I guess the police hands are tied tho, Theres only so many speed cameras they can put up and unless they are actually there to see people driving dangerously then people will continue to get away with it and will carry on driving that way.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:07 pm  

I work with a client that has a global footprint-100000 staff. They have a traffic incident somewhere every 36 hours. A quite remarkable statistic given they are a minerals extraction company.
They have introduced a driving standard that you would think is unworkable
All vehicles less than 3 years old or x mile. All fitted with roll bars etc. High spec vehicles
5 star driving programme- Attendance at a variety of courses
Each vehicle is fitted with an in vehicle monitoring system. If you speed for more than 10 seconds a text is sent to a senior manger similarly if you break harshly or don’t take a break before 120 minutes- All incur disciplinary action!

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:14 pm  

London buses are being fitted with a traffic light system, they have lights on the dash were if you are driving safely and smoothly it stays green on the other hand if you drive to quick for the road or brake harshly and taken off quickly it goes red, it's all fed back to the garages and the drivers are re-educated as to how to change their driving style, the unions were non too impressed at first seeing it as another way to discip.ie drivers but were assured it was an educational tool rather than a discipline one. The union only came round when they decided to turn it in to a bonus scheme and a whole shift in 'the green' meant a cash bonus in every pay packet.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:29 pm  

Him wrote:

..
There isn't that much that a driving test/lessons can do about the arrogant pillocks that drive far too fast/cut people up/overtake where they shouldn't etc as that's generally an attitude that is inherent to that person. ...

Well, there is, though. One or two insurance companies will insure young drivers if they fit what amounts to a mini-tachograph. What if someone has demonstrated bad driving (eg convicted of careless or dangerous driving) - is there a case that they can only have their licence back if for 9say) 2 years they have a device fitted, and take it to be analysed once every X weeks - with power to withdraw the licence if it evidences speeding, harsh driving etc.? We seem to have the technology, and it ought to be "user pays"

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:39 pm  

McLaren_Field wrote:

... I maintain that in recent years (say 10 years) the level of driver aggression on the roads has increased noticeably.

Yes, I don't think it's at all restricted to car drivers, but without a doubt. One aspect of it is "road rage" where the slightest perceived slight can cause the most disproportionate response. Another is the ability of young males to acquire high powered cars, and run them with no owner registration and no insurance, like friggin' dodgems with no regard at all for anyone else, middle finger at the ready.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:40 pm  

The standard of driving is very low in this country but I don't think it's something that more driving lessons (necessarily) can fix; as I think the root cause of the problem is people being too aggressive, impatient and generally oblivious to everything going on around/drive like they are the only person on the road.

I find many of these to be middle aged men and young girls. The young blokes just tend to knowingly drive around like loons.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:44 pm  

Robbo wrote:

I agree that more should be done to educate drivers before giving them a license.

I'm not sure about that, but certainly don't see it as the main issue (although the criminal failure to give, or even allow, motorway training is an exception).

I think I am coming round to the view that, at least for those who show they are in need of it, some form of technological continuous assessment is about the only thing that would work.

east stander wrote:

...
Each vehicle is fitted with an in vehicle monitoring system. If you speed for more than 10 seconds a text is sent to a senior manger similarly if you break harshly or don’t take a break before 120 minutes- All incur disciplinary action!

This sort of thing.

Re: Death on the UK roads : Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:56 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Well, there is, though. One or two insurance companies will insure young drivers if they fit what amounts to a mini-tachograph. What if someone has demonstrated bad driving (eg convicted of careless or dangerous driving) - is there a case that they can only have their licence back if for 9say) 2 years they have a device fitted, and take it to be analysed once every X weeks - with power to withdraw the licence if it evidences speeding, harsh driving etc.? We seem to have the technology, and it ought to be "user pays"

Yeah if someone has been convicted of a certain degree of "bad driving" then I'd be all for some sort of monitoring system placed in their cars. However the problem is you're often dealing with pillocks who don't care and would possibly just drive while banned anyway and so wouldn't accept the system.
It might work in some cases though, but I would only be supportive of it for people convicted, not a blanket measure for new/young drivers, which I think is what the insurance companies want.

Also this obviously isn't applicable to a driving test/driving lessons, where I was saying that some more education/information would be helpful in things like motorway driving and driving and reacting to different conditions.