Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:53 am  

BrisbaneRhino wrote:

... If people choose not to take out mortgage protection insurance or similar products then - just as with any insurance - they shouldn't whine if things go wrong and they can't pay. Whilst banks are dumb for lending too much money in good times, so are most people who borrow way more than they can safely afford.

The typical scenario found by someone who lost their job due to the antics of Fred the Shred & co would be that when they took out the mortgage, they were obliged to take out mortgage insurance. This would cover the lender, so that under NO circumstances was the lender at any risk, as any shortfall on a forced sale would be covered by the insurance company as a result of the premiums which the borrower (and not the bank) had compulsorily paid.

Then the insurance company would sue the borrower for the shortfall.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:55 am  

Mintball wrote:

When in fact they, and big business, just nick it from everyone of the rest of us.

Nick it? I don't remember Tesco ever nicking anything from me. I've usually exchanged a few quid for some goods I require.

I'm assured plenty people steal from Tesco, though.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:57 am  

Dally wrote:

Who are HSBO - you keep referring to them?

It's that TV station that makes big budget American dramas. That's where she gets her 'facts' from, I think.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:21 am  

ROBINSON wrote:

Nick it? I don't remember Tesco ever nicking anything from me. I

Then you should have watched Panorama the other night. Basically, they're very good at it.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:56 am  

Dally wrote:

The people who do nick money are the public sector pension grabbers.

So you'd prefer a load of retired public sector workers to be unable to pay their mortgages, eat, heat and light their properties?

You do realise, don't you, that public sector workers a) pay tax on their earnings when they work, b) make purchases in the real world, some of them every day, thereby contributing to VAT and other tax revenues that businesses pay, as well as company profits and c) when people retire, they don't suddenly get everything for free so that the pensions they receive just sit there and the money is effectively removed from the economy?

You do realise that don't you? Please tell me you do.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:13 am  

Damo-Leeds wrote:

What most people want is a stable home for long periods of time and if that isn’t reasonable then I don’t know what is.

Humankind's natural status is that of nomadic hunter gatherer. That's what we are evolved for.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:15 am  

El Barbudo wrote:

Maybe when HSBC buy HBOS (not to be confused with RBS) from LBG (who own what used to be TSB, CGBS and HBOS), the new firm will be called HSBO?

I thought she may be getting confused with that US Channel that the boxing is / used to be on.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 11:31 am  

Chris28 wrote:

So you'd prefer a load of retired public sector workers to be unable to pay their mortgages, eat, heat and light their properties?

You do realise, don't you, that public sector workers a) pay tax on their earnings when they work, b) make purchases in the real world, some of them every day, thereby contributing to VAT and other tax revenues that businesses pay, as well as company profits and c) when people retire, they don't suddenly get everything for free so that the pensions they receive just sit there and the money is effectively removed from the economy?

You do realise that don't you? Please tell me you do.

I do but they have abused their positions. They are on average paid more than non-public sector workers and on average enjoy much better pensions. Nothwithstanding the fact that they pay tax on their income they are still, of course, funded by the rest of society that is on average substantially poorer than them. Let's say a local authoity manager retires on a pension of £60,000 that's equivalent to a £1m + capital asset and their personal contributions will account for a modest part thereof Now there an awful lot of people in the public sector who are made millionaires like that (despite the usual matra about averages of £6,000 pa - still much more than lower).

If the public sector does not actually cost anything why is Greece, with its bloated public sector, bust and the UK so indebted?

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:37 pm  

Cronus wrote: No other country is obsessed with mortgages and home ownership like the UK and the rest of the world manages just fine. The rest of the world manages just fine? Are you that deluded, that ignorant and that detached from current affairs in the world that you can come in and make sweeping statements like this? Perhaps you could have a look at these Americans that aren’t doing fine and are struggling to pay off debt: http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/archive You see mortgages aren’t the only financial noose that people take a risk with to improve their lives and in many cases improve the world. I think you’ll find that you’re looking at things from a very narrow angle. Here’s some non-English websites set up in other countries because things aren’t fine whatsoever. http://revolutionsweden.wordpress.com/ http://www.onesolutionrevolution.de/ http://revo.revoluce.info/ There’s even more out they if you want to educate yourself about the struggles of the world. What a surprise. You want everything on a plate. Someone can't repay the money loaned to them (or pay their rent) and you think it's some sort of scandal they may have to move? Who should cover their bills? The taxpayer? Or should homes be handed out free as well? Damo: a textbook example of the "the world owes me a living" generation. With this misguided body of writing you put together by seeing my name and going on a cliché rant against me. I don’t think you even read what I put. You just fancied having a pop. Let me make things clear. My mate got evicted from his old flat because his housemate (who wasn’t very nice) couldn’t afford to pay his bills. So my mate got chucked out of that flat through no fault of his own. I was just giving an example of how most things can be out of people’s hands when it comes to things like this.

Cronus wrote: No other country is obsessed with mortgages and home ownership like the UK and the rest of the world manages just fine. The rest of the world manages just fine? Are you that deluded, that ignorant and that detached from current affairs in the world that you can come in and make sweeping statements like this? Perhaps you could have a look at these Americans that aren’t doing fine and are struggling to pay off debt: http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/archive You see mortgages aren’t the only financial noose that people take a risk with to improve their lives and in many cases improve the world. I think you’ll find that you’re looking at things from a very narrow angle. Here’s some non-English websites set up in other countries because things aren’t fine whatsoever. http://revolutionsweden.wordpress.com/ http://www.onesolutionrevolution.de/ http://revo.revoluce.info/ There’s even more out they if you want to educate yourself about the struggles of the world. What a surprise. You want everything on a plate. Someone can't repay the money loaned to them (or pay their rent) and you think it's some sort of scandal they may have to move? Who should cover their bills? The taxpayer? Or should homes be handed out free as well? Damo: a textbook example of the "the world owes me a living" generation. With this misguided body of writing you put together by seeing my name and going on a cliché rant against me. I don’t think you even read what I put. You just fancied having a pop. Let me make things clear. My mate got evicted from his old flat because his housemate (who wasn’t very nice) couldn’t afford to pay his bills. So my mate got chucked out of that flat through no fault of his own. I was just giving an example of how most things can be out of people’s hands when it comes to things like this.

Re: The Growing Gap Between Rich And Poor : Wed Dec 07, 2011 12:40 pm  

Dally wrote:

I do but they have abused their positions. They are on average paid more than non-public sector workers and on average enjoy much better pensions. Nothwithstanding the fact that they pay tax on their income they are still, of course, funded by the rest of society that is on average substantially poorer than them. Let's say a local authoity manager retires on a pension of £60,000 that's equivalent to a £1m + capital asset and their personal contributions will account for a modest part thereof Now there an awful lot of people in the public sector who are made millionaires like that (despite the usual matra about averages of £6,000 pa - still much more than lower).

If the public sector does not actually cost anything why is Greece, with its bloated public sector, bust and the UK so indebted?

What abuse of their positions are they guilty of?

Nice use of averages to support your argument too - on "average" paid more, which means some won't be, and the "average" of £6k pension per year, which means some won't be on anything like it, if your local authority manager is on a £60K pension. Have you ever tried to live on £6K a year?

Genuine question - how does a £60K pension = a £1m+ capital asset? I honestly don't know so need some assistance understanding that.

I never said the public sector doesn't cost anything, but unless you want to pay direct to abuse the doctors and nurses you have such a problem with, or get your debit card out when you want to report a crime to the police, or have a coin meter on your local street light, you have to pay for public services. If you don't like how "your" money is spent or think some public services should be scrapped, stand for election to the council and bring the system down from within.