Re: OT - Stop Bale ................. : Fri Jul 27, 2012 10:24 am  

Off! Number Seven wrote:

... If there were not enough people volunteering for the forces, there would be conscription or national service ...

I can't imagine any government, of any hue, being very 'popular' on trying to introduce that.

An argument can well be made that there is already, in effect, economic conscription. It is no coincidence, for instance, that none of Tony Blair or David Cameron's children are ever likely to join up. We were holidaying on Anglesey some years ago and the friend we were staying with, drove us around the island quite a bit. There were vast adverts for the military – because it was a massive recruitment ground for the military because it was an area that offered young people very little else.

Off! Number Seven wrote:

I personnally think if Comonwealth citizens serve 12 years or more in the forces residency/nationality should be guarenteed.

On this we agree.

Re: OT - Stop Bale ................. : Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:10 am  

Mintball wrote:

I can't imagine any government, of any hue, being very 'popular' on trying to introduce that.

An argument can well be made that there is already, in effect, economic conscription.

I completely agree with both these statements. But I have to say that as unpopular as conscription or national service may appear to us, necessity and the fear created by the media with "what if" scenarios would facilitate its introduction.

Its a sad fact that the forces has for many centuries consisted of the very poor being led by the very rich . It was also an alternative to prison for many years for troubled working class youths. It seems to be a fact in many countries the world over that recruitment has been focussed in areas of significant economic hardship (Michael Moores Fahrenheit 911 piece on Flint, Michigan is another example)

I also think Commonwealth citizens should be awarded the same residency rights as those of European Union states regardless of whether they have served in the forces.

Re: OT - Stop Bale ................. : Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:14 am  

Off! Number Seven wrote:

The "interpretation" of military discipilnary action as criminal behaviour in a decision making process is an action that would be considered illegal by employers, military discipline isn't required to be disclosed for Home Office security vetting or Civil Nuclear Security so why is it necessary or acceptable by the UKBA.

Unfortunatley a change in the Rehabilitation of Offenders Acts has meant that charges and punishments under "Military Justice" can be equated to a criminal conviction. Whilst I'm no legal buff, I am an ex-serviceman who has had sight of files of horendous crimes committed by military personnel, which where never recorded as criminal convictions. It's right that certain "criminal actions" taken by military personnel for which they have been punished should be put on a criminal record but my own view is that it should only be those that have been tried at a Courts Martial, the nearest vehicle the military judical system has with it's civil counterparts and not those which have been dealt at "Commanding Officer" level such as "Bales". As Mr Bumble said "The laws an ass". And I hope that the legislation is changed sooner rather than later.

Off! Number Seven wrote:

This smacks of the UKBA going after easy targets.

Yes it does. Commonwealth ex-service personnel are an easy target for an under fire government agency who are hell bent on achiving their targets so their suits can collect their bonuses and their ministers will be off their backs.

Re: OT - Stop Bale ................. : Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:23 am  

Standee wrote:

Yes I did, he has a criminal conviction and, as such, is not eligible to stay, harsh, but it's the law.

Bale does not have a criminal record. Under changes to The Rehabilitation of Offenders Act he has on record a military misdemenour that CAN and that the Home Office and the UKBA has chosen to equate as a criminal conviction.

So have you or will you sign the petition to help change the law and an injustice???

Re: OT - Stop Bale ................. : Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:47 am  

The Lambeth Bronco wrote:

So have you or will you sign the petition to help change the law and an injustice???

No, I wont, because I don't see it as an injustice.